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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
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If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

RavenWilder Since: Apr, 2009
#88826: Sep 1st 2018 at 4:43:56 PM

My guess: Scott and/or the suit was too wiped after the airport fight to do any more shrinking. So, while everyone else was distracted by what was going on with Rhodey, he tried to leg it out of there. But with the authorities closing in, he realized he wasn't going to get away, so got the suit to a mailbox as quick as he could.

Whowho Since: May, 2012
#88827: Sep 1st 2018 at 4:54:38 PM

I strikes me how little experience Scott has compared to other heroes. He only has a year of active superheroing between Ant-man and civil war. Other times he's spent under house arrest or stuck in the quantum verse?

Even spider-man has him beat now with, uh, two and a half years of active superheroing given he'd been Spider-man for six months when Tony found him. And Wasp has seemingly had three years of undercover work between Ant Man and Ant and and the Wasp.

ManOfSin Since: Mar, 2015
#88828: Sep 1st 2018 at 7:23:34 PM

Just watched Thor: Ragnarok. Was Thor seriously going to let Loki run free around Earth?

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#88829: Sep 1st 2018 at 7:26:45 PM

Probably not free

It helps knowing that Dr Strange exists to help keep Loki in line

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
ManOfSin Since: Mar, 2015
#88830: Sep 1st 2018 at 7:35:46 PM

The mid-credit seem made it seem that Loki had redeemed himself and was off the hook. Wouldn’t be the first time the MCU has done this(Wanda and Nebula).

Edited by ManOfSin on Sep 1st 2018 at 10:36:05 AM

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#88831: Sep 1st 2018 at 8:19:38 PM

[up][up][up][up]Thankfully he has Doctor Pym as a mentor, otherwise he'd be a disaster waiting to happen.

Did Clint and Scott make pleas BEFORE Cap broke them out? Or once they were sprung did they both go "we're gonna be line to a lawyer."

Marvel did a prequel comic to Infinity War, and it made it clear it was after. After Cap busted the team out, Scott and Clint asked to be dropped off with their respective families.

So it's likely they turned themselves in after going home and made the offer for the deal.

Edited by comicwriter on Sep 1st 2018 at 8:40:08 AM

Whowho Since: May, 2012
#88832: Sep 1st 2018 at 8:48:41 PM

Okay, last question, what were Scott, Hope and Hank charged with exactly? They're not members of the Avengers, so the Sokovian Accords don't dictate if they can cross boarders to superhero or not. So, were they charged with aiding and abetting the Avengers in breaking the Accords? Which would make sense to me given how Scott got such a light slap on the wrist. Hope and Hank seem to be in hiding more because they don't want to turn over their tech, rather than hiding from any kind of scary sentence.

Discar Since: Jun, 2009
#88833: Sep 1st 2018 at 9:02:38 PM

The Accords are not limited to the Avengers. A hundred countries are not going to draft a massive treaty solely for half a dozen people. While the specifics are left deliberately vague (and it was even a joke in Ant-Man and the Wasp that no one understood the agent when he named the exact chapter and paragraph of the Accords that Scott violated), the point is that they regulate any "empowered" people. That's a very broad term, and covers both people with powers like the Inhumans and people with special tech like Scott.

Writing a post-post apocalypse LitRPG on RR. Also fanfic stuff.
RavenWilder Since: Apr, 2009
#88834: Sep 2nd 2018 at 12:07:10 AM

Scott's crimes would presumably be property destruction (he smashed a lot of stuff at that German airport) and aiding & abetting an escaped fugitive (Bucky). Also, possibly entering a foreign country without a passport (it's unclear whether Sam went through normal airline channels when bringing Scott over).

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#88835: Sep 2nd 2018 at 12:12:54 AM

Yeah, that was one of the reasons why Cap was against it. Though I guess Pym and Hope might also be in trouble for blowing up their own company.

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#88836: Sep 2nd 2018 at 12:44:07 AM

Also the suit is very recognizable as Hank Pym's design. Hank and Hope don't appear to have charged Scott with stealing it, so from there it'd be concluded that they aided him in the crime by providing him the suit as means.

windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#88837: Sep 2nd 2018 at 2:13:34 AM

[up][up][up]You can also add reckless endangerment (throwing the oil tanker at Rhodes and trying to sabotage Tony's suit).

Edited by windleopard on Sep 2nd 2018 at 2:13:15 AM

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#88838: Sep 2nd 2018 at 7:57:57 AM

You know, it makes you wonder what would have happened if Cap had come to Tony with what Bucky had told him.

Sure Ross wouldn't trust him (Either Ross), but as we saw with later on, Tony puts a bit more faith in what Steve says, though he'd need solid proof, which they couldn't supply.

I do think that Tony might have checked it out on his own to confirm, or would have least tried to find a way to do so.

One Strip! One Strip!
Punisher286 Since: Jan, 2016
#88839: Sep 2nd 2018 at 1:06:34 PM

Well Zemo only really wins in the end because Cap does it "his way" and Tony went along with it as a favor to Sam. It's one of the more interesting things about the climax imo.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#88840: Sep 2nd 2018 at 3:34:26 PM

Yeah. Though I think an important thing to consider is that while Zemo's timing was very fortuitous (that he chose this time when the team was in a very vulnerable place, both professionally and personally), we also have to consider that his plan was just keep going until I succeed or I die. He was totally willing to kill himself after he was done, but considering how far he was willing to go, and how many innocent people he was willing to kill just to create this moment where all the important players were gathered together, I honestly think that if something had happened to prevent that opportune situation in the movies climax, he'd had just tried something else.

It's just like why he killed all those people in the first place: the guy he wanted the info from chose death first, so he went to plan B of Flush out the worlds greatest Spy / Assassin instead.

Though Bucky was probably his last chance, and he'd have been screwed if the Police killed him.

I wonder just how thoroughly he studied the Avengers actually? Did he even infiltrate the compound in disguise and listen in on some conversations when he got the chance? Because a lot of his plan hinges on things like Cap choosing to interfere in the attempt to arrest Bucky.

One Strip! One Strip!
Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
it's a living
#88841: Sep 2nd 2018 at 4:08:38 PM

I get the impression that Zemo's "plan" was more just a series of Indy Ploys. It's impressive in its own way, but I don't think he was a Chessmaster who'd profiled every member of the Avengers and could predict their every move. But he's good at reading people and improvising as the situation changes — the same as the Avengers themselves, really. He's a villain who operates like he's the hero.

Edited by Unsung on Sep 2nd 2018 at 5:08:23 AM

Aleistar Since: Feb, 2018 Relationship Status: Hugging my pillow
#88842: Sep 2nd 2018 at 4:58:15 PM

#ZemoforThunderbolts

Edited by Aleistar on Sep 2nd 2018 at 7:57:52 AM

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#88843: Sep 2nd 2018 at 5:18:24 PM

Honestly, that one is more than likely.

I'm sure Ross would love to get his hands on someone who gave the Avengers a bloody nose for Wetworks missions.

And in the event that they start causing problems. I'm genuinely surprised he didn't try and recruit Zemo for hunting down Cap's team.

One Strip! One Strip!
Aleistar Since: Feb, 2018 Relationship Status: Hugging my pillow
#88844: Sep 2nd 2018 at 5:22:23 PM

I am also in favor of a Thundebolts, but Marvel's adherence to Superhero Movie Villains Die means it's kinda difficult getting a roster together - the best I can think of is Abomination, Vulture and Zemo, but the problem is that a) Abomination is from The Incredible Hulk and as such is not liable to be used again any time soon and b) Zemo and Vulture are in two different prison systems, and it's unlikely anyone could convince people to let Zemo out of his cage for a microsecond after he BOMBED THE UN.

Best case case scenario is some post-Avengers 4 thing, but there are so many variables it's hard to tell.

Edited by Aleistar on Sep 2nd 2018 at 8:22:12 AM

Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
it's a living
#88845: Sep 2nd 2018 at 5:27:06 PM

Mac Gargan, Tinker, and Ghost, too. And depending on what we get in Captain Marvel, maybe Moonstone as well. There was a time when I thought this just an idle hope, but it seems increasingly likely that this was, in fact, part of the plan.

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#88846: Sep 2nd 2018 at 5:27:06 PM

Zemo, Abomination, Ghost, Vulture, and probably at least one character introduced in the movie itself.

If Vulture can't be used then sub him for another newbie.

Either way Zemo betrays the team, gets either an army or personal superpowers, and the other four have to face him in a final battle.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#88847: Sep 2nd 2018 at 5:32:38 PM

Is there an issue with the Abomination via rights issues of some sorts, or is it just that there aren't many things from The Incredible Hulk that they want to touch?

Though they brought back Ross, so maybe I'm just seeing something that isn't there.

One Strip! One Strip!
Aleistar Since: Feb, 2018 Relationship Status: Hugging my pillow
#88848: Sep 2nd 2018 at 5:38:56 PM

To my knowledge, any Hulk solo movie still has to be distributed by Universal (TIH was made both because the Hulk was one of the only heroes Marvel had that the general public was aware of given the Bixby series), but he can still show up in other movies. There's no real rights issues AFAIK

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#88849: Sep 2nd 2018 at 5:45:33 PM

It’s amusing to think that despite the massive changes to his character Zemo’s original Thunderbolts role can still work.

Just change his motivation to trying to discredit superheroes than ruling the world.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#88850: Sep 2nd 2018 at 8:04:10 PM

I have to admit, when we got to Ant-Man and the Wasp and Ghost was still alive at the end, I had a feeling we were getting Thunderbolts.


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