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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

shatterstar Since: Apr, 2015 Relationship Status: I wanna know about these strangers like me
Soble Since: Dec, 2013
#88677: Aug 30th 2018 at 7:20:22 AM

I'm watching Ragnarok on Netflix finally and...

...Stephen Strange is kind of a dick. Maybe its just Rule of Funny at work, but all of the teleporting during his meeting with Thor was unnecessary. He doesn't do this while meeting with Stark and Banner in Infinity War, so why do it to Thor? He's also a doctor and, I would assume, would be above screwing with people for the hell of it.

Also, Strange just portal'd over to Odin off-screen when Loki "exiled" him, had a chat, and left him alone after determining he wasn't a threat? Strange learned that the King of Asgard was bumming around on Earth between films? That feels like a meeting of the minds that should have been a deleted scene or something.

Strange keeping a "watch list" of potential threats is amusing. I swear he undercuts just about everything Stark and Rogers have achieved in the past two generations of Marvel films.

I'M MR. MEESEEKS, LOOK AT ME!
windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#88679: Aug 30th 2018 at 7:43:28 AM

It's funny that DC will never live down the stigma of their characters killing people. Meanwhile, Marvel characters kill people all the time and no one raises a fuss.

Nobody got sent to the Phantom Zone in Infinity War. Every single one of the Children of Thanos is pushing up daisies right now. Tony Stark, Bruce Banner, Vision, and Wanda Maximoff all added +1 to their body counts, and not one of these kills was an accident or convenient self-disposal by the villain.

Hell, the plan to kill the Ebony Maw was Peter Goddamn Parker's idea. So he gets half a body count point. No one ever talks about the fact that Spider-Man came up with a plan to send a man to an icy grave in the vacuum of space.

And that's not even taking into consideration the many alien thralls that most of the film's heroes cut down in the big battle scene. Infinity War was a bloodbath.

But Superman broke a dude's neck that one time, so DC must forever live with the stigma of its heroes being ruthless killers.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Aug 30th 2018 at 8:44:57 AM

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#88680: Aug 30th 2018 at 7:46:53 AM

DC's characters have been held up to a higher standard for a long time

Marvel characters not so much, aside from baffling periods of time where it was insisted that Cap never killed anyone not even in wartime

That and most of Marvel's characters aren't as engrained in the public consciousness as Superman and Batman

Batman's No Kill Code has become this big mythic thing despite him actually killing people not infrequently early on. Iron Man's most famous story had him killing a dude by accident

Edited by Bocaj on Aug 30th 2018 at 10:50:15 AM

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#88681: Aug 30th 2018 at 7:52:35 AM

I don't recall anyone complaining when Hal killed Parallax in the Green Lantern movie. But then again, there was a lot to complain about in that movie. Plus, comic fans seem to not see aliens as people.

Marvel seems to not be held to a higher standard. But then again, people are still bitter over Peter making a deal with the devil years later.

Edited by windleopard on Aug 30th 2018 at 7:52:21 AM

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#88682: Aug 30th 2018 at 7:53:59 AM

Truly selling your marriage to not Satan is a worse crime than killing a dude

We'd all do well to remember that

Edited by Bocaj on Aug 30th 2018 at 10:53:30 AM

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Ikedatakeshi Baby dango from singapore Since: Nov, 2015 Relationship Status: Singularity
Baby dango
#88683: Aug 30th 2018 at 8:00:46 AM

What Measure Is a Mook? is still a thing, right? Nobody cares about the Black Order in that murdering them would elicit any emotion but disappointment at their lack of usage, while Man of Steel dedicates a few minutes to the neck snapping in a movie with a serious tone. While I feel the fan reaction is overblown, the director's intention was for the fact that Superman killed someone to be a focus, so it feels odd when people criticize them for focusing on it more than with Marvel characters.

Edited by Ikedatakeshi on Aug 30th 2018 at 11:04:05 PM

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#88684: Aug 30th 2018 at 8:05:04 AM

It’s the presentation. Cap slams a man’s head into a car, then runs off to the next guy before any viewer has time to think it over. Superman kills a villain, with dramatic music and closeups, and so the audience doesn’t forget. Note how Tim Burton’s Batman movies got away with him killing for a while because it was treated casually.

windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#88685: Aug 30th 2018 at 8:29:26 AM

It got away with it back then because the Internet wasn't what it was but make that film today and it will get ripped to shreds on that alone. Far too many people see Batman and Superman killing humans as a no-no for any director to get away with it no matter how casual they are about it.

Discar Since: Jun, 2009
#88686: Aug 30th 2018 at 8:30:25 AM

The Marvel movies are not shy about killing because they know their characters are soldiers. Soldiers kill people, it's that simple. Other parts of the MCU have slightly different standards—in Agents of SHIELD for example the characters are police so they try not to kill, but no one complains when they do.

The DC movies inherited their comics' morality of "killing people is always wrong," but they kill people anyway because they're trying to be gritty and dark and "realistic." You'll note that no one care about Wonder Woman killing people in her movie, despite the emphasis on how pointless the war was, because everyone involved is a soldier.

Writing a post-post apocalypse LitRPG on RR. Also fanfic stuff.
windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#88687: Aug 30th 2018 at 8:31:53 AM

Last I checked, Tony Stark, Antman, Dr Strange and the Guardians weren't soldiers.

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#88688: Aug 30th 2018 at 8:35:28 AM

Tony Stark is a walking war crime, Dr Strange is a soldier but in a weird war not officially recognized by civil authorities, and the Guardians are mercenaries. One of which is an assassin and the other one of which has already been murdering quite a bit in his backstory.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#88689: Aug 30th 2018 at 8:46:22 AM

Stane is a war criminal, Tony's just the guy cleaning up his mess. Strange is in a weird area but okay let's go with what you say. The Guardians being mercenaries, okay.

So you've got Antman, Tony, Peter, Hulk who aren't soldiers but have still killed.

That leaves Wasp as the only MCU movie hero without a body count.

123tbones Since: Aug, 2015
#88690: Aug 30th 2018 at 8:53:07 AM

I think the only person Ant-man “kills” was Cross when he was about to kill Cassie and Paxton. Funny how we don’t compare that scene to neck snapping in Man of Steel.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#88691: Aug 30th 2018 at 8:55:21 AM

Well, there is this giant explosion….

123tbones Since: Aug, 2015
#88692: Aug 30th 2018 at 8:58:01 AM

Oh yeah...

I guess some of those subdued mooks couldn’t recover in time.

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#88693: Aug 30th 2018 at 8:58:42 AM

People hold Superman to a higher standard than Ant-Man. Not that hard to figure out.

If Ant-Man had a public perception at all prior to the movie it was as a fuck up. And the movie didn't really dispel that. But Superman is supposed to be the gold standard by which all other superheroes are judged. He doesn't get that leeway.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#88694: Aug 30th 2018 at 9:03:06 AM

RE: Pym building explosion. The evacuation alarm is set off and we see Luis dragging out the mooks who were knocked out cold.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#88695: Aug 30th 2018 at 9:03:27 AM

The actual point here is that the DC characters tend to be very, very powerful. Marvel heroes are usually a little bit closer to earth. Most of the Marvel heroes which kill (and not all of them do, Spider-Man and Daredevil have a no-kill rule), they do so because they have no other choice or because they are deliberately written that way (like The Punisher or Deadpool). But DC heroes, they are gods on earth. It would be kind of terrifying if Superman would kill people left and right. We tend to hold gods to a higher standard than humans.

Though the neck snap specifically mostly doesn't work because it was badly set-up. The Man of Steel review of Nostalgia critic explains very well why this could have worked if the same scene has happened in a different context and if there had been some sort of fall out from it.

windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#88696: Aug 30th 2018 at 9:20:36 AM

Marvel's heroes are no more powerful than DC's. The X-Men alone have numerous characters that can put Superman down. Batman doesn't even have super powers so he's got more of a reason to use lethal force than most of the MCU roster. We're about to get Captain Marvel, a character whose been described as being powerful enough to move the moon. Superman has three easily acquired weaknesses that render this "God on earth" b.s invalid. Not to mention, gods kill all the time. Just ask Thor and Hercules. And I've yet to see anyone come up with a way to stop Zod without killing him.

And as I've said, people would find a way to complain about the killing no matter what.

Edited by windleopard on Aug 30th 2018 at 9:25:17 AM

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#88697: Aug 30th 2018 at 9:29:30 AM

Did Superman try to kick him in the nuts?

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#88698: Aug 30th 2018 at 9:30:17 AM

He did. Zod didn't appreciate it for some reason.

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#88699: Aug 30th 2018 at 9:30:54 AM

Heh

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#88700: Aug 30th 2018 at 9:31:22 AM

And I've yet to see anyone come up with a way to stop Zod without killing him.

Snap his limbs, Sup holds his hands over Zod’s eyes.note  Fly him to the spot in India where the World Engine was, and punt into the zone full of Kryptonian atmosphere and proto-kryptonite.

Edited by Tuckerscreator on Aug 30th 2018 at 9:33:27 AM


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