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Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM
You just practically confirmed what I said. The episode is presented like the gun debate episode, but there is not actual gun debate happening, instead we get to see the talking points the NRA is comfortable with, which makes it easy to dismiss people who advocate gun control in real live.
Give me one example in this episode, just one, where someone says or it is made clear that gun control is NOT the same as banning guns altogether, and where a good argument for a reasonable gun control policy is made. Just one example.
It's not presented as a gun debate episode. There's like, what, six minutes of gun debate, if that? And it deliberately steps lightly around the subject, which, given that this is The Punisher, is a statement unto itself. If this show, of all shows, wanted to get all gung-ho, rah-rah about the right to bear arms, it wouldn't need to be shy about it. I'm not saying the episode does a great job of being pro-gun control, but saying that that reticence puts it on the same level as NRA propaganda seems like a leap. Like, the fact that we have a version of the Punisher where you're not complaining that the entire series seems like a right-wing daydream, that speaks volumes to me.
I don't think there's a point where anyone other than Ori says that all gun control is banning guns, so I don't see why there needs to be a point where they say it isn't. Again, that's just not the message I got from the show — Karen doesn't seem like she'd be opposed to registering her firearm or being licensed to use it. She doesn't say that out loud, but she mostly seems to support the Daredevils and Frank Castles of the world insofar as they're helping the law get to where it needs to be, not supplanting it.
Edited by Unsung on Aug 28th 2018 at 7:40:56 AM
There is also no point at which anyone refutes what Ori said and corrects what gun control actually is. Ori is represented as the gun control advocate in the episode, and not only is he portrayed as entirely unsympathetic, the point he represents don't even have anything to do with an actual gun control discussion.
And it is not just "six minute of gun debate" because this is not just about what is said, but also what is shown. After all the talk about gun control they take away Karen's gun and promptly show her helpless until a helper with a gun shows up. That is basically the NRA's most idiotic argument put on screen.
Edited by Swanpride on Aug 28th 2018 at 10:10:28 AM
It does. It acts as if gun control is about gun ownership and then puts Karen into a situation in which she is in danger but can't use her gun. The suggestion there is clear: she would have been safer if she hadn't been forced to surrender her gun. And in the end the situation is solved by a vigilante with a gun.
Ori clearly says he wants to take guns away from certain people, not all people.
I imagine most audience members would rather those certain people include the Timothy Mc Veigh Expy as opposed to Karen.
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How does that refute gun control? Like yeah, she would have been safer if she'd had a gun on her in that moment, but only because the existing laws are already so loose that a mad bomber with a gun just walked right through the door. Saying the episode is pro-NRA propaganda is a huge reach. At its worst, the series as a whole is overly ambivalent, but Lewis Wilson embodies the kind of militia mindset you're accusing the show of harbouring, and this is the episode where he's at his most outright villainous.
Edited by Unsung on Aug 28th 2018 at 6:36:16 AM
Heh. Just noticed that in the set for The Incredible Hulk, the Bruce Banner Emoji is very obviously Mark Ruffalo, not Ed Norton.
I'm actually most surprised they actually included Quicksilver given how much of an Un-person he's been. Dead after one movie. Little to no merchandise (hell, he's the only Avenger not to get a Funko Pop bobblehead, and Funko makes toys of everything). Nobody ever mentions him in the subsequent films. Someone up top must really hate the character for some reason.
Edited by comicwriter on Aug 28th 2018 at 10:42:13 AM

You're drastically oversimplifying the whole debate, and I say that as a Canadian who doesn't want to own a gun or want to need to own a gun. What you're talking about the NRA doing, that's what Ori is doing as well — he's not so much a hypocrite as an opportunist. He's courting controversy, rather than introducing policy that will actually pass, and the reason it won't pass is because a lot of the common sense gun regulations other countries might have can't really be implemented in the US in any coherent way. It's past that point. You're not just changing the law, but the culture and the Constitution.
Seriously, though. Karen Page believing she needs a single handgun to protect herself when she's actively investigating organized crime in New York is a far cry from the card-carrying NRA member who believes he has a God-given right to stockpile guns and ammo at a ranchhouse in the middle of nowhere — who in turn may very well be a law-abiding citizen compared to the actual professional criminals armed with contraband automatic weapons. The middle ground here is a lot wider than you're allowing yourself to see.
Edited by Unsung on Aug 28th 2018 at 7:00:04 AM