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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
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If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Whowho Since: May, 2012
#88576: Aug 23rd 2018 at 4:47:39 PM

I think the movie priorities are wrong if ever a female character's butt is so important it needs to be cast.

Eagal Since: Apr, 2012
#88577: Aug 23rd 2018 at 4:54:25 PM

Just put some stuffing in the seat of her pants and don't film any scenes where you can see her from the back when she's not in costume. Why hire a body double just for her butt. That's just a waste of money, time and effort.

Edited by Eagal on Aug 23rd 2018 at 4:56:29 AM

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#88578: Aug 23rd 2018 at 5:01:21 PM

As noted, it makes sense if there's any kind of quasi-nude scene and Brie Larson doesn't want to do it.

Remember when Steve Rogers came out of the super soldier serum machine with pecs you can carve meat on? If Chris Evans didn't want to do that scene, Marvel would have hired a body double to play Steve's pecs.

It doesn't have to be "Marvel wants the character to have a better ass than Brie Larson does." It could just as easily be "A scene briefly calls for Carol's ass to be visible and Brie Larson doesn't want to display hers on-camera."

The whole point of doubles is to perform any scene that the expensive actor is unwilling to. Someone's supposed to spit in Tony Stark's face and RDJ says no? Body double. Thor needs to pet a cat and Chris Hemsworth hates cats? Body double. Gamora has to sprint down a hallway and Zoe Saldana pulled her hamstring? Body double!

That's just Hollywood.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Aug 23rd 2018 at 6:02:45 AM

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
XJTordecai Watch the seventh wave Since: Jun, 2013
Watch the seventh wave
#88579: Aug 23rd 2018 at 5:07:07 PM

God I'm so excited/nervous for A4. Just thinking about the ratio of things I can infer are gonna happen vs. what I actually want to see happen, all these teamups/reunions, who's gonna die for real, how they're all gonna get out of this universe-wide pickle, and so on. It's pretty rare for me to feel this strongly about an upcoming movie so credit where it's due to Marvel I guess.

On my wave, passing oooooooon
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#88580: Aug 23rd 2018 at 5:08:37 PM

To further clarify, an example of an ass double specifically being useful would be the hospital scene from Thor. In that scene, Thor tries to fight off the doctors to get out of the patient room. One doctor yanks down his pants to inject a sedative into his asscheek.

Did Chris Hemsworth's ass play Thor's? I don't actually know. But the actor would have been within his rights to go, "I don't want my ass on camera," at which point they would have used as ass double.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
KJMackley Since: Jan, 2001
#88581: Aug 23rd 2018 at 5:11:44 PM

It's just standard procedure, it's unlikely the director and producers are scouring over a notebook filled with pictures of women's butts and thinking "This will be our Signature Scene." It's more likely there is a shower scene or dressing scene and the casting department wants to have all their bases covered. If you noticed the pay rate of $125 for a ten hour day, they can afford it.

I recall some people having a good laugh over the claim of nudity in Lady in the Water and while the character was naked, all we saw was below the knee.

Those notebooks, by the way, do exist.

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#88582: Aug 23rd 2018 at 5:15:40 PM

The confirmation that Carol is probably going to have a semi-nude scene is the big takeaway here, I think.

Though on second thought, I want to change my guess. Since she gets her powers by being experimented on by aliens, instead of Clothing Damage I'm going to guess she gets some Wolverine or Deadpool style scene where she's clothesless in a lab and has to escape.

That would simultaneously be the way that makes the most sense for the plot and is also the least skeevy.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Aug 23rd 2018 at 5:16:26 AM

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#88583: Aug 23rd 2018 at 5:16:52 PM

I hope it's not a shower or dressing scene. A gratuitous nude scene for pointless titillation's sake would be a bad look for the MCU's first female-led movie.

Something more like Steve's pecs or Thor's ass would be preferable.

EDIT: Alternately, something like Hulk's ass in Thor: Ragnarok where the characters is 100% in control of the gratuitous nudity might also be acceptable.

One of the biggest problems with nudity in film is that it's often presented either through the lens of voyeurism - the character is alone with an expectation of privacy - or the character is unwillingly forced to be naked. Both of these wind up feeling intrusive, as though the character is being violated by the presence of the camera. Hulk, however, demonstrated how a nude scene can empower rather than violate through the magic of character choice.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Aug 23rd 2018 at 6:22:16 AM

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
KJMackley Since: Jan, 2001
#88584: Aug 23rd 2018 at 5:32:33 PM

While there is certainly a precedence that female nudity is treated as more scandalous than male nudity, the fact you can easily list off movies having the need for male body doubles is an indication that the need for a female body double shouldn't be treated as a big deal. There is "tasteful nudity" and then there is blatant Fanservice. Not every Shower of Angst is fanservice, unless you want it to be mocked.

HarpieSiren Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: I've been dreaming of True Love's Kiss
#88585: Aug 23rd 2018 at 6:50:12 PM

The casting call is for A4, not Captain Marvel. Also, notice that they specifically want images of the double's backside in skintight leggings so I'm not sure if nudity is involved here.

Also, the height requirement is too short to be a double for Larson.

Edited by HarpieSiren on Aug 23rd 2018 at 6:49:59 AM

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#88586: Aug 24th 2018 at 12:47:35 AM

Maybe this Mary Lou person is just using MCU hype to solicit ass shots? tongue

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#88587: Aug 24th 2018 at 12:53:01 AM

To be frank here: As long as they don't overdo it, I don't mind a little bit for the male gaze, mostly because the MCU movies have already shows so much for the female gaze. There is next to no MCU movie in which you don't get to see something to salivate over, and unlike comic books, in which muscles are clearly shown off to satisfy the male gaze, in the movies they often do it from the female gaze...the list include:

Thor having a reason to be shirtless in pretty much every movie he is in.

The way they show off Cap's body, but especially him coming out of the transformation (you know, Haley Atwell's reaction is real, she actually was that flustered when she saw him in all his manliness) and the helicopter scene (it's always amusing to listen to crowd reactions to that one).

Having Chris Pratt only in his underwear getting covered in orange goo. Just imagine the same scene with a female character.

So, fair is fair. Not that I think that they need a butt model for something truly bad.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#88588: Aug 24th 2018 at 12:56:08 AM

I am suddenly reminded of that episode of Friends.

Fun Fact: It is possible to overact while playing a butt double. tongue

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
XJTordecai Watch the seventh wave Since: Jun, 2013
Watch the seventh wave
#88589: Aug 24th 2018 at 1:33:15 AM

My mom was nothing short of delighted at Thor's shirtless scene in Ragnarok. To say nothing of when he got the eyepatch.

On my wave, passing oooooooon
Luigisan98 A wandering user from Venezuelan Muscat Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: I <3 love!
A wandering user
#88590: Aug 24th 2018 at 1:34:18 AM

Wait, doesn't Black Widow's introduction in battle count as male gaze?

The only good fanboy, is a redeemed fanboy.
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#88591: Aug 24th 2018 at 2:42:59 AM

[up] You mean in Ironman 2? Yes, more or less everything Black Widow related is male gaze. Mostly I don't have a problem with it (like I said, fair is fair) except the idiotic "changing dresses on the back of a car" scene. Putting aside that you would expect a spy wearing clothes which can be made combat worthy within seconds, no woman ever has put on her nylons by stretching her leg into the air, unless it was part of some sort of strip show. Do you have any idea how unpractical that would be?

Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#88592: Aug 24th 2018 at 2:46:55 AM

> no woman ever has put on her nylons by stretching her leg into the air, unless it was part of some sort of strip show. Do you have any idea how unpractical that would be?

just to spite you women everywhere are now going to start putting their tights on by holding their legs in the air

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#88593: Aug 24th 2018 at 3:12:52 AM

[up] Most of them won't be able to. Just try it out, sit down and then stretch your leg straight in the air. It's not as easy as it looks.

Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#88594: Aug 24th 2018 at 3:14:15 AM

Challenge accepted!

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
KJMackley Since: Jan, 2001
#88595: Aug 24th 2018 at 4:03:26 AM

Considering that half of Black Widows fight scenes involve wrapping her legs around the targets head, I think the "legs up putting on nylons" wouldn't be improbable for her. Might consider that a mundane training exercise.

For me, actors and actresses usually have a career because they are attractive, and it's unreasonable to expect the camera to avoid painting them as attractive (it's a nice surprise for a Beauty Inversion from time to time, though).

It's a matter of functionality within the story and how much the camera and/or movie "lingers" on the fanservice. Making it into a full sequence or a joke with "eyes on the road" kind of stuff is where it gets unnecessary. The audience is already aware of these moments, many going "Scarjo in a bra, Scarjo in a bra!" As such I'm kind of cynical when people try calling out Male Gaze on a shot that only lasts for 2 seconds and/or is incidental in the action taking place.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#88596: Aug 24th 2018 at 4:34:32 AM

[up][up] And? How did it go?

[up] Oh, I don't doubt that Black Widow would be able to do it, she is trained in ballet after all. But it is still and incredible unpractical way to do it. It's way faster to slip them on or off while having your leg down instead of doing some sort of erotic gymnastic on the backseat of a car.

Needless to say that the way they handled her in Ironman 2 is still my least favourite.

Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#88597: Aug 24th 2018 at 4:37:38 AM

Swimmingly,it took a few tries though!

wink

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
Luigisan98 A wandering user from Venezuelan Muscat Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: I <3 love!
A wandering user
#88598: Aug 24th 2018 at 4:40:28 AM

[up] You're a girl...?

The only good fanboy, is a redeemed fanboy.
Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#88599: Aug 24th 2018 at 4:47:13 AM

YES

I mean no,i'm a guy

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
Mizerous Pet Owner from Hell Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: Brewing the love potion
Pet Owner
#88600: Aug 24th 2018 at 6:18:55 PM

GOTG is put on delay btw.

Just Makima.

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