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Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM
So I was thinking the other day. And I think you can genuinely create a through line of Tony Stark's personality from Iron Man 2 to Infinity War. And it all comes back to one man: Ivan Vanko.
"If you can make God bleed, people will cease to believe in him."
At the start of Iron Man 2, Tony Stark is invincible. He is, despite Nick Fury's posturing, the only superhero in the world. Cap is still frozen, Peter Parker is a teeny-tiny boy, Thor is off being a douchebag, Hulk is underground, and Peter Quill is also still a douchebag. Tony Stark is the world's greatest hero, he's privatized World Peace, no one can touch him. Even though he's dying, he feels unstoppable. No one can stand up to him in a fight and no one can even come close to replicating his tech. He has the physical superiority and the moral high ground, all the time. He's the man.
And then Ivan Vanko comes along. He shows up out of nowhere and kicks the Invincible Iron Man's ass. Iron Man has to be rescued. Up until that moment, the world thought Tony Stark was the baddest man to ever live. But here's this Ivan Vanko guy, and with something he built IN A CAVE, with a BOTTLE OF VODKA, he has brought him to his knees. He even challenges Tony's moral superiority by making him doubt his father, his legacy, making him believe, even if only for an instant, that his father was a thief. That the very thing keeping him alive doesn't even belong to him. Now, yes, Tony and Rhodey beat Justin Hammer's drones and Vanko dies and Tony saves the day, but Vanko got what he wanted. The world saw God bleed.
"There will be Blood in the Water. And the Sharks will come."
After Iron Man 2, Tony tries to insist upon his invincibility again. He rubs Coulson's nose in it when he has to come "crawling" back to recruit Tony for The Avengers, he lords his intelligence over everyone. He pokes The Hulk with a stick, he laughs at the Trickster God, he makes jokes about the God of Thunder after said deity kicks his ass. Because he needs you to know he's unflappable. That nothing can touch him, nothing phases him. That he's still the Invincible Iron Man. It isn't until the Wormhole that he's shaken. Because for the first time since he became Iron Man, he has to come face-to-face with his own mortality, with the prospect of his imminent death. Even though he lives, it changes him.
Aldritch Killian sees that Iron Man is vulnerable. That he's weak. That he can be broken. Beaten. It's time to make his move.
But Tony refuses to believe, to accept, to admit, that he's broken. Because he can't show weakness, because he's The Invincible Iron Man. So he builds a hundred thousand suits of armor, armors for every occasion because he will never be caught off-guard again. He builds a suit for the sole purpose of getting into a fistfight with The Hulk, so he never has to play hit-and-run or let Thor do the fighting, so he can be a heavy hitter. T Ony builds more suits, drones, to take a crack at omniscience and omnipresence, to police everyone, everywhere, to show off his might and keep the world safe. He builds Ultron, the ultimate peacekeeping Artificial Intelligence, so that he can save the world. When it all goes wrong but he has a chance to make it right again with Vision, he insists that the other Avengers let him do it again, because he needs to prove that he's right, that Tony Stark doesn't make mistakes, that he's the Invincible Iron Man.
But after Civil War, he starts to crumble. He starts to know his weakness. To admit his fault. To realize that the world is catching up with him. Peter lets him play at being Invincible again, because Peter idolizes him, and because Peter's problems are on a small enough scale that he could easily handle them (Because let's be honest, Iron Man vs. Vulture would have been a three-second movie), but he knows himself enough that he doesn't want Peter to be like him. He wants Peter to be a better him. To be as Invincible as Tony Stark was supposed to be. He even makes him an Iron Spider suit.
"That up there? That's the endgame." "All that for a drop of blood."
Now, finally, Thanos. The big guy. The endgame. Finally, Tony can prove himself again. He can fight the physical manifestation of all his doubts, all his fears. Dr. Strange? Stupid, stuffy wizard-man. Bruce? Embarrassing. Peter? Adorable. Guardians? Kill me, please. Steve? No, he doesn't need Steve. Because Tony Stark, at the twilight of the universe, refuses to admit he needs anybody. Even as he's admitted to weakness, his answer to that is just "Make myself Invincible again." He's built an even stronger Iron Man suit, the strongest one yet, one that's on him all the time, that he can put on in a second, so that he'll never be weak, never be caught off-guard, ever again. He's the smartest, he's the strongest, he's...
"We're in the endgame now..." "I don't wanna go..."
He's failed. He's alone. Despite all his briliance, all his power, all his fighting, all his struggling... it wasn't enough. It was never enough. He wasn't enough. He's lost. He isn't Superior. He isn't Ultimate. He isn't Invincible. He's Tony Stark. All alone. And that wasn't good enough.
My various fanfics.It's noteworthy (and I'm always amused how I'm the only one that seems to have made that connection) that the trailer song for the main Captain America: Civil War trailer is called "Sharks don't sleep", oddly fitting with the "there will be blood in the water and the sharks will come." omen Vanko dishes out.
"All you Fascists bound to lose."![]()
I like that, but I feel the parts where Tony tries to retire and he just can't bring himself to and he goes back to being Iron Man are also really important to who he is as a character. It's important that that narrative throughline is punctuated by moments where Tony tries to derail his train, but he can't stop or help himself and he just gets right back on track.
Edited by PushoverMediaCritic on Aug 22nd 2018 at 3:28:31 AM
That hypothetical scenario makes me wonder if (assuming they do go for it somehow) they'd be able to squeeze in a Lawyer-Friendly Cameo of Super-Skrull somewhere. Like he's not named or anything, but he behaves in a way that'd make comic book guys go "oh, that's going to be Super-Skrull."
"If you can make God bleed, people will cease to believe in him."
At the start of Iron Man 2, Tony Stark is invincible. He is, despite Nick Fury's posturing, the only superhero in the world. Cap is still frozen, Peter Parker is a teeny-tiny boy, Thor is off being a douchebag, Hulk is underground, and Peter Quill is also still a douchebag. Tony Stark is the world's greatest hero, he's privatized World Peace, no one can touch him. Even though he's dying, he feels unstoppable. No one can stand up to him in a fight and no one can even come close to replicating his tech. He has the physical superiority and the moral high ground, all the time. He's the man.
And then Ivan Vanko comes along. He shows up out of nowhere and kicks the Invincible Iron Man's ass. Iron Man has to be rescued. Up until that moment, the world thought Tony Stark was the baddest man to ever live. But here's this Ivan Vanko guy, and with something he built IN A CAVE, with a BOTTLE OF VODKA, he has brought him to his knees. He even challenges Tony's moral superiority by making him doubt his father, his legacy, making him believe, even if only for an instant, that his father was a thief. That the very thing keeping him alive doesn't even belong to him. Now, yes, Tony and Rhodey beat Justin Hammer's drones and Vanko dies and Tony saves the day, but Vanko got what he wanted. The world saw God bleed.
"There will be Blood in the Water. And the Sharks will come."
After Iron Man 2, Tony tries to insist upon his invincibility again. He rubs Coulson's nose in it when he has to come "crawling" back to recruit Tony for The Avengers, he lords his intelligence over everyone. He pokes The Hulk with a stick, he laughs at the Trickster God, he makes jokes about the God of Thunder after said deity kicks his ass. Because he needs you to know he's unflappable. That nothing can touch him, nothing phases him. That he's still the Invincible Iron Man. It isn't until the Wormhole that he's shaken. Because for the first time since he became Iron Man, he has to come face-to-face with his own mortality, with the prospect of his imminent death. Even though he lives, it changes him.
Aldritch Killian sees that Iron Man is vulnerable. That he's weak. That he can be broken. Beaten. It's time to make his move.
But Tony refuses to believe, to accept, to admit, that he's broken. Because he can't show weakness, because he's The Invincible Iron Man. So he builds a hundred thousand suits of armor, armors for every occasion because he will never be caught off-guard again. He builds a suit for the sole purpose of getting into a fistfight with The Hulk, so he never has to play hit-and-run or let Thor do the fighting, so he can be a heavy hitter. T Ony builds more suits, drones, to take a crack at omniscience and omnipresence, to police everyone, everywhere, to show off his might and keep the world safe. He builds Ultron, the ultimate peacekeeping Artificial Intelligence, so that he can save the world. When it all goes wrong but he has a chance to make it right again with Vision, he insists that the other Avengers let him do it again, because he needs to prove that he's right, that Tony Stark doesn't make mistakes, that he's the Invincible Iron Man.
But after Civil War, he starts to crumble. He starts to know his weakness. To admit his fault. To realize that the world is catching up with him. Peter lets him play at being Invincible again, because Peter idolizes him, and because Peter's problems are on a small enough scale that he could easily handle them (Because let's be honest, Iron Man vs. Vulture would have been a three-second movie), but he knows himself enough that he doesn't want Peter to be like him. He wants Peter to be a better him. To be as Invincible as Tony Stark was supposed to be. He even makes him an Iron Spider suit.
"That up there? That's the endgame." "All that for a drop of blood."
Now, finally, Thanos. The big guy. The endgame. Finally, Tony can prove himself again. He can fight the physical manifestation of all his doubts, all his fears. Dr. Strange? Stupid, stuffy wizard-man. Bruce? Embarrassing. Peter? Adorable. Guardians? Kill me, please. Steve? No, he doesn't need Steve. Because Tony Stark, at the twilight of the universe, refuses to admit he needs anybody. Even as he's admitted to weakness, his answer to that is just "Make myself Invincible again." He's built an even stronger Iron Man suit, the strongest one yet, one that's on him all the time, that he can put on in a second, so that he'll never be weak, never be caught off-guard, ever again. He's the smartest, he's the strongest, he's...
"We're in the endgame now..." "I don't wanna go..."
He's failed. He's alone. Despite all his briliance, all his power, all his fighting, all his struggling... it wasn't enough. It was never enough. He wasn't enough. He's lost. He isn't Superior. He isn't Ultimate. He isn't Invincible. He's Tony Stark. All alone. And that wasn't good enough.
Oh. My. God.
That was an amazing read. And it's gotten me to want Tony to be the one who gives Thanos the obligatory "Reason You Suck" speech. Maybe something like:
- "You know what it's like to lose? Try this on for size: I had done everything. I had done everything I could possibly do to keep Earth safe from jackasses like you. I-I make so many armors that I don't know how many I have, I tell genuinely great people to not be like me so they don't end up like me. I try anything and everything to be a hero that Earth needs and what does it get me? Alone. Miserable. Feeling dead. I have seen people crumble to dust and I couldn't do a single damn thing about it but watch, knowing that they have a better shot of being heroes than I do and yet I'm the one who's still standing. So don't BS me or yourself that you know what it's like to lose. Because you don't. But you're going to."
I'd also be down to see Kl'rt prior to becoming the Super-Skrull. He's a pretty cool dude.
I'm imagining a world where we already have Peter Quill, Drax the Destroyer, the Nova Force, and Thanos introduced, Captain Marvel adds Kl'rt, and then Phase 4 gives us Quasar, the Silver Surfer and Galactus, and a Fantastic Four movie featuring Annihilus and the Negative Zone.
And then the big Phase-closeout crossover is Annihilation, one of the biggest and best Cosmic Events in Marvel history. The thing that put Cosmic Marvel back on the map after years of audience disinterest.
And then maybe the Skrull homeworld gets nuked by the Annihilation Wave and we can do Secret Invasion in Phase 5.
Edited by TobiasDrake on Aug 23rd 2018 at 12:09:40 PM
My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.I really thought our resident Tony Stan would have something to say about my dissertation.
I haven't posted anything dumb in a while, so here goes.
https://society-reviews.com/2018/08/17/is-marvel-hiring-a-butt-double-for-brie-larson/
In one of the oddest and humorous stories of the week, Marvel Studios is searching for a ‘butt double’ for reshoots of Avengers 4 due out next year. Disney is scheduled to begin a series of reshoots over the coming weeks as it prepares for a lengthy post-production. In a Georgia Central Casting Facebook page (GCC) ad, they call for additional photography and a ‘butt double’ presumably for Brie Larson who is set to play Captain Marvel in the latest film.
The Casting Call states…
- FEATURE FILM – Mary Lou****
Central Casting is looking for a Photo Double to work on this exciting project. Filming will likely begin in early September; you should have a flexible schedule and ability to work multiple days a week through October. An interview and fitting will be required within the next 2 weeks. Filming will mostly take place in Fayetteville & the Greater Atlanta Area. Experience is preferred. You MUST fit these size requirements:
-Woman #1: Looking for a female who appears to be Caucasian, 20’s-30’s. Height 5’2 – 5’4, Bust 32B – 32D, waist 25 – 27, hips 36 – 38, dress size 0-4. Hair color: BLONDE
ONLY SUBMIT IF YOU FIT THIS DESCRIPTION! And follow the instructions carefully or you will NOT be considered! To submit, send an email to Mary Lou@Central Casting.com and include: your name, phone number, height, weight, sizes, current photo(s) and a resume of any relevant experience. For photos, you MUST include:
1. a headshot 2. full body shot of your front side, head to toe 3. full body shot of your back side (wearing ALL BLACK, leggings or yoga pants- must be form fitting).
Please put “BODY DOUBLE” in the subject line.
Now in the act of fairness and accuracy, we have to state that the call doesn’t directly say that the double will be for Brie Larson as it could also be for Scarlett Johansson who plays Black Widow as well. But while we are still in the speculation stage of the story we speculate…
Marvel saw this image
and decided to rectify this serious problem. Superheroes need to have great butts, and Brie just doesn't have enough junk in her trunk.
It's standard operating procedure for any sort of expected nude scene. Given the premise I would speculate there is likely to be some sort of "primal rebirth" scene and they want to get some angles the main actress would not be comfortable with. Even still that doesn't always mean they will use the exact takes filmed by the double, but they also use a stand-in for lighting/camera/hair tests before the main actor/actress arrives on set.
There are all sorts of reasons why a comic book adaptation would need a butt double for an attractive female character famous for wearing form fitting if not skintight spandex fabric.
That said, none of them are good. Or at least, I can't think of any that wouldn't make a thirteen year old giggle.
My guess is that Carol suffers Clothing Damage at some point, but in a scene Brie Larson isn't going to be doing herself. So they need a double who convincingly matches her from the back and I don't even know I'm just spitballing at this point.
Edited by KnownUnknown on Aug 23rd 2018 at 4:42:29 AM

And besides Infinity War showed he is most certainly not one to be trifled with.
It makes ya think he was just having fun seeing how many of his lackeys fail before he decides "Eh that's a lot dead losers, guess its time to actually get work. Damn if that wasn't funny hilarious.
"
Edited by slimcoder on Aug 21st 2018 at 2:48:19 AM
"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."