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Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM
Not that there is anything wrong with it....
The relationship between Steve and Tony is complicated anyway. I always wondered if Tony lashed out to Steve when they encountered each other not just out of anger over the years in which Steve was hold up to him as this ideal he would never measure up to, or if it was also because he was afraid that he wouldn't measure up in Steve's eyes either, so he did a Rocket and showed off his worst character trait from the get go.
And I wonder if Tony still deep down wants a "you did good" from Steve.
Promo art of Captain Marvel on the cover of a Brazilian magazine[1]
Another good costume for showing the magic of what superhero costumes can look like when you just use other materials than spandex.
That's been one of my favorite things about the MCU so far: superhero costumes that look like real things that people might actually wear and yet are easily distinguishable as superhero costumes.
My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.Yeah, we are always honouring the directors and sometimes the writers, but there are so many people doing their part to make those movies looks great. The CGI department delivering the best effects of the industry (frankly, Rocket looks amazing!), the costume department finding a great balance between the comic book looks and what is actually practical (and I will be very upset if they don't get a nomination for the costumes in Black Panther this year), the casting director (did you know that James Gunn didn't even want Chris Pratt in the role of star lord? The MCU's casting is so spot on, the people responsible deserve more recognition for it) and everyone else.
In Gunn's defense, I don't want Chris Pratt in the role either. Chris Pratting up the guy who's supposed to be the leader that holds this group together is how Gamora wound up having to be the unshakable paragon moral center instead of the deadliest assassin in the galaxy.
Pratt's particular brand of Everyman that he plays in every single movie has grown very thin on me.
My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.I feel human everyman in a sci-fi nonsensery like Guardians works, although it works in a very tried and true maybe overused sci-fi shortcut.
Forever liveblogging the Avengers![]()
That's fair. He's not responsible for Quill's writing, Peter Gunn is.
The original Guardians of the Galaxy script was written by Nicole Perlman, who is currently responsible for writing the upcoming Captain Marvel and Black Widow films. Peter Gunn signed onto the project later. He's verbally criticized her script and claims to have rewritten it pretty much entirely, but she's still credited as "Co-Writer". What parts of her original script survived are unclear.
Gunn has addressed the question by saying that it was basically all him and suggested that she's only in the credits because the Writers Guild of America really likes first writers and isn't willing to take their name off of stuff even when their work is no longer relevant to the project.
The WGA, however, have rebuked this explanation
, with co-Chair Craig Mazin stating, "In the case of an adaptation like 'Guardians,' the rules don't favor the first writer."
Now, we don't know what Perlman's script looked like, so it's impossible to say who deserves how much credit for what. Here's what we do know.
Perlman came up with Quill's reinterpretation as a child abducted by Yondu. She created the story direction of this band of outlaws in a relationship of convenience who wind up protecting an Infinity Gem. She introduced Thanos to be the big bad villain of the piece, following up on his appearance in The Avengers.
Peter Gunn, in turn, added a lot of the comedy and light-hearted tone to the film, where Perlman's film would have been more serious. Gunn introduced Nebula to the script and revised Yondu's character, revising the character Perlman had to be Quill's father figure. He also cut Thanos out of most of the film, replacing him with Ronan the Accuser.
So, we know that the serious story beats with Quill are Perlman's work, while the womanizing manchild who can't take anything seriously is Gunn's revision. YMMV on the changes to the script. The comedic tone was definitely a boon and Nebula's addition did a lot for the film. At the same time, YMMV on how well Yondu works as a father figure given the other shit he does, and replacing Thanos with Ronan is an extremely visible decision that actively detriments the film and universe thereof.
Either way, it's pretty shitty of Gunn to try and claim that Perlman didn't do shit for the film and it's all his masterpiece.
Edited by TobiasDrake on Aug 20th 2018 at 1:39:17 PM
My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.Guardians not having comedy would just be wrong, and having Thanos be the main villain for Guardians 1 would have seriously killed any hype for him in Infinity War. Ronan as the main villain was a much better call. It honestly sounds like half the skeleton of the movie was Perlman and everything else was Gunn. Like 15% Perlman, 85% Gunn.
I think that was deliberate to point out that Peter is kind of an expy of James Gunn himself.
Well, Nicole Perlman said that James Gunn added the jokes, freely admitting that she is not a comedic writer, so I guess the "not understanding metaphors" stuff was also added by him. And apparently the Walkman was his idea, too.
But otherwise...frankly, some of the best parts of the movie are from Perlman. She picked the characters. She rewrote Star Lords backstory into something which actually made him sympathetic. Remove the hospital scene and I think a lot of people would hate him, it is his traumatic past which makes us forgive him being so emotionally stunted. And what actually makes this work is the simple but solid structure the movie has. It is really difficult to introduce so many characters at once and make the audience care.
And it was always really sh... of Gunn to claim the whole movie as his own baby, without giving her even the slightest credit and indeed basically claiming in public that she is a subpar writer. The cast members might enjoy working with him, but I wonder if Nicole Perlman would agree with them. After all, James Gunn stepped right over her.
That's shitty if that's the way he put it, though not entirely out of character. I have to imagine almost all of the dialogue would have been rewritten and that the Walkman and character arcs are his additions doesn't seem to be in dispute. It does depend on how the question was put, but yes, there's no real reason to be petty about sharing the credit on this. Maybe it was just growing pains of coming onto the big, collaborative project of the MCU — certainly James Gunn is probably the most auteur-like director since... probably Jon Favreau on Iron Man, really.
But I just can't agree that Ronan detracts from the movie or the MCU overall. He's too good, and Thanos still gets a bigger role in GOTG than any other movie up to now.
Edited by Unsung on Aug 20th 2018 at 3:48:46 AM
He basically claimed that he did a page 1 rewrite and changed all of the characters. And then there is naturally the whole "they always honour the first writer". It is kind of depressing to read the article about Nicole Perlman's success now, because I am not sure how much work actually came to her (or any other female writer) after Got G due to James Gunn making sure to push her out of the limelight as hard as possible (Marvel did kind of the middle thing, they had her on the press tour, but when journalists reached out to Perlman after James Gunn claims for clarification, she said that she needed Marvel's permission for that interview - which was never given). And Marvel only pulled her back for Captain Marvel, which is the typical "oh, it is a female lead movie, I guess we need a female writer in the team" thing.
Which is why I said "karma is a bitch" regarding James Gunn now not being able to direct Got G Vol 2.
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That's why it is called "karmic". Because it is unrelated. If it were related, it wouldn't be karmic anymore. And I wouldn't see it that way if I had any doubt that James Gunn will get a hefty good-bye sum from Disney and a bunch of offers from other studios once he is available. In the end him getting fired really boils down to "he can't finish Got G on his own and will therefore be forced to share credit". That's what makes it karmic.
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An unfinished pitch? Did you pay attention? She laid all the groundwork. If not for her picking the project and coming up with something Marvel liked, there wouldn't even be a Got G. Nicole Perlman was never shy in giving James Gunn credit, so it is pretty disgusting that you are now trying to play down her contribution.
Edited by Swanpride on Aug 20th 2018 at 1:22:10 AM
You're totally ignoring the precedent of this issue. It's like if you're looking for an event to make Gunn deserving to be fired because of his poor crediting.
Did the Alt-right ever think of using Nicole as part of the plan to fire him? No? Then you should not, by any means, try to spin this into a matter of karma for poor crediting. And even so, as Media says, she may not have even done much for the script.
The only good fanboy, is a redeemed fanboy.He didn't say he changed the characters chosen (other than adding Nebula), but rather that he reworked their arcs and dialogue. I think there's a bit of talking at cross-purposes about what comprises the bulk of the script here, but regardless, I do think Gunn is in the wrong. There's really no upside to hogging sole credit for the script in an MCU movie, these movies being so inherently collaborative. With Gunn coming from an indie background, though, I do know know where that's coming from — that jealousy over the lines themselves, that fear of losing his edge and selling out that often comes up in discussions about him. But I think he does underrate the value of the bones of the script, because there were major story elements that were held over even if all the dialogue and various scenes were entirely rewritten.
It's like— I don't know. Say you customize the entire body of a car, reupholster it, weld the shit out of its frame, tighten up the wheels, take it out and win a race with it — there's no question you did a lot of work, and you deserve most of the credit for that. But if you put all that on top of an Acura frame, you can't say you made that car from scratch. And in this case it's like maybe Gunn replaced the engine, but a lot of the guts of the car were still in there. This is a terrible analogy, I'm sorry.
Anyway. There's no real excuse, since the price of being generous here is nothing, really, and you're already sharing custody of this baby with a whole backlot of producers. But I do sort of get where that hunger for the spotlight comes from, even if it's the kind of habit you need to be able to get under control.
Edited by Unsung on Aug 20th 2018 at 3:49:23 AM
>.< I don't know why I always call him Peter Gunn. I honestly don't. It's just how his name sticks in my head for some reason.
In addition to Swanpride's point, it's also disingenuous to credit James Gunn for the character arcs when Quill's arc is confirmed to have been Perlman's work and Drax's almost certainly is too. As many comic fans noted when the movie came out, Drax's vendetta against Thanos for killing his family gets switched to Ronan in the film, likely because of Gunn changing out the villain.
At the end of the film, Drax awkwardly sidesteps this change by abruptly declaring that he now has a vendetta against Thanos. Because sure, why not?
Now, Gunn can be credited for Gamora's relationship with Nebula, which many have lauded as one of the best parts of the franchise. Nebula legitimately was all Gunn's idea. He added her to the script; anything concerning her is his credit.
But to give him credit for all of the character arcs is doing the same thing he did: downplaying Perlman's work for the sake of hero-worshipping the man who replaced her.
As to the Thanos point, you might say now that having Thanos in the film might not have been the best idea, but that wasn't the sentiment then. Guardians of the Galaxy cemented the idea that Thanos just sits in his chair all day and doesn't do a goddamn thing. Up until Infinity War's release, Thanos's uselessness has been a running joke in the fandom.
It was a long and arduous slog to get to the point where Thanos stops being a useless burden of an unresolved plot point bogging down the entire franchise. It is, indeed, a testament to Infinity War's writing that they actually managed to do the character justice and earn a positive reception despite a fatigued and beleaguered audience that had long grown tired of shitty, pointless teases of this f*cking guy who never does anything.
Having Thanos as the villain in Guardians would have done wonders to relieve that frustration, preventing him from years spent not as the ominous Greater-Scope Villain Marvel wanted him to be but as a non-threatening joke. In the aftermath of Avengers, fans deserved a reason to actually be scared of this guy, and instead were just given glances and glimpses of a useless lump in a chair.
Six years is a long time to expect filmgoers to be intimidated by a dude who doesn't do anything.
Edited by TobiasDrake on Aug 20th 2018 at 2:39:03 AM
My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.Are the Guardians former crooks in the comics? I think I recall reading that part was invented for the film, if Perlman came up with that aspect then she definitely deserves a lot of credit for the finished film, as the team’s redemption story was the strongest emotional and unifying element in making all these wacky obscure characters appealing.

Fair enough. While it can be looked at that way in hindsight, I can agree that Steve was in full Save Bucky mode during the fight.
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