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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#88351: Aug 12th 2018 at 8:31:05 PM

Reminder: Natasha was born in 1984 and the KGB was dissolved when she was 7.

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#88352: Aug 12th 2018 at 9:40:49 PM

I believe the screenwriters already confirmed in CACW commentary that she was referring to their encounter in the previous movie and that while they know of their comics relationship, they did not write Bucky and Natasha with the intention that they had a prior relationship together.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#88353: Aug 12th 2018 at 9:43:02 PM

Damn.

That's no fun.

One Strip! One Strip!
VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#88354: Aug 13th 2018 at 5:54:11 AM

It makes sense with the continuity established in Cap 2. That was the chance to give Black Widow her comics origin, and the Russos choose to be different.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#88355: Aug 13th 2018 at 6:15:07 AM

Indeed. A choice was made in Winter Soldier to have Bucky serve Hydra rather than the Soviets, and that pretty much ruined any potential for Nat to have a history with him.

Natasha Romanova has a checkered past but she is not now nor has she ever been a Nazi.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#88356: Aug 13th 2018 at 6:36:57 AM

I am glad about it. Honestly, just consider the implications there if Natasha had known more about The Winter Soldier and didn't bother to tell Cap about it in The Winter Soldier.

Plus, not everyone needs to have a past with each other.

eligram Since: Sep, 2009 Relationship Status: In denial
#88357: Aug 13th 2018 at 9:32:41 AM

Good news, Darryl survived the snap! Bad news, now he's working sundays.

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#88358: Aug 13th 2018 at 10:52:48 AM

I really want Daryl to become Captain Universe.

Mostly because I find the concept of Captain Universe to be more hilarious than epic.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Aug 13th 2018 at 10:53:57 AM

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#88359: Aug 13th 2018 at 10:58:00 AM

I hope Thor sends him some money, Darryl shouldn't have to deal with both the Snap and crippling debt.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#88360: Aug 13th 2018 at 12:08:03 PM

I am glad about it. Honestly, just consider the implications there if Natasha had known more about The Winter Soldier and didn't bother to tell Cap about it in The Winter Soldier.

That wouldn't necessarily be a problem given that he's a brainwashed assassin.

It's entirely possible for Nat to have a history with the Winter Soldier but have no idea who Bucky Barnes is.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#88361: Aug 13th 2018 at 12:27:32 PM

Winter Soldier in the comics had a relationship with Nat because he was pretty independent-thinking and personable even under mind control, doing things like openly questioning orders or saving Cap from other bad guys in the famous “who the hell is Bucky” encounter. The MCU Winter Soldier is practically a vegetable, and highly unlikely to have pursued a relationship while being an assassin-slave.

Edited by Tuckerscreator on Aug 13th 2018 at 12:27:40 PM

XJTordecai Watch the seventh wave Since: Jun, 2013
Watch the seventh wave
#88362: Aug 13th 2018 at 12:30:17 PM

Sorry, Darryl, but Thor's not doing so well right now...

On my wave, passing oooooooon
Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#88363: Aug 13th 2018 at 12:39:47 PM

IIRC, since it's a while since I've seen Winter Soldier, Nat vaguely knew of him as a bogeyman who gave nightmares to fearsome assassins like herself. My impression is that even though Hydra was Running Both Sides of the Cold war, the MCU Winter Soldier was still being sent on missions which were officially pro-Soviet, despite being controlled by Alexander Pierce.

Which is to say that to the extent Nat knew of him, my understanding is that she thought of him on the "same side", but as a mysterious and feared figure who could (and did) also kill some Soviets. Which Nat probably chalked up to Russia's notoriously harsh retirement policies, but was probably because the purpose of his missions was to help Hydra, not the Soviet Union.

RavenWilder Since: Apr, 2009
#88364: Aug 13th 2018 at 4:35:15 PM

I thought she had a story about being shot by the Winter Soldier?

Zanthype from The Tardis Since: May, 2016 Relationship Status: Hoping Senpai notices me
#88365: Aug 13th 2018 at 6:17:05 PM

Nat had fought him and he scarred her near her hip. She makes a joke about, "Bye bye bikinis" and Steve says, "Yeah, I bet you look terrible in them now."

Edited by Zanthype on Aug 13th 2018 at 6:17:02 AM

"In 900 years of time and space I've never met anyone who wasn't important."
Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#88366: Aug 13th 2018 at 10:42:29 PM

In Black Widow shows off her L'Oreal hair and the king of the most advanced civilization on Earth argues with a goat.

XJTordecai Watch the seventh wave Since: Jun, 2013
Watch the seventh wave
#88367: Aug 13th 2018 at 11:55:38 PM

RDJ bursting out into Supercalifragilisticexpialadocious gives me life.

On my wave, passing oooooooon
Luigisan98 A wandering user from Venezuelan Muscat Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: I <3 love!
A wandering user
#88368: Aug 14th 2018 at 1:01:58 AM

Someone on Reddit found out the exact number of dark jokes involving child porn done by James Gunn.

Answer: It's not 10,000 as the Alt-right says.

https://www.reddit.com/r/marvelstudios/comments/92bgiu/james_gunn_did_not_make_10000_jokes_about_rape/?sort=confidence

The only good fanboy, is a redeemed fanboy.
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#88369: Aug 14th 2018 at 2:19:58 AM

Well, apparently the far right is worried that Disney might change its mind, because they are now releasing pictures of James Gunn with the promise of more. Frankly, I am not quite getting what is so bad about said pictures, but they make a big deal about it.

Luigisan98 A wandering user from Venezuelan Muscat Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: I <3 love!
A wandering user
#88370: Aug 14th 2018 at 2:23:19 AM

[up] Desperate to fabricate more stories about him it seems.

The only good fanboy, is a redeemed fanboy.
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#88371: Aug 14th 2018 at 6:35:40 AM

They haven't been able to score another win and are trying to milk this one and keep it in the public consciousness.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Luigisan98 A wandering user from Venezuelan Muscat Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: I <3 love!
A wandering user
#88372: Aug 14th 2018 at 6:39:35 AM

[up] Which of course, will fail as long as good men play their part.

The only good fanboy, is a redeemed fanboy.
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#88373: Aug 14th 2018 at 6:57:07 AM

Basically, what it boils down to is this. The Right is in a bit of a bind with their public perception, because many of their policies and people are horrible and yet their platform runs entirely on moral superiority above practicality. The Right thrives on fostering the image of Good, Honest Christians Doing God's Work while suppressing minorities, abusing women, eating the poor, etc.

To this end, they have adopted the political strategy I like to call the Rubber V. Glue defense. In order to retain the moral high ground, they have to demonize the Left and make it look like the Left is not only equally bad, but actively worse.

In recent years, however, coming forward about the crimes you've been the victim of instead of suffering in silence has become something of a trend. This has nailed figures on both the Left and the Right, but many of the Right's accusations are so much worse. To this end, the Right has become desperate to try and find anything they can pin on the Left and say, "Look at them! Stop looking at me, look at them! No, shut up about Roy Moore, THEY have the REAL pedophile over THERE!"

Most of their efforts in this regard have utterly fallen flat. But with James Gunn, they finally got one.

Problem for them is, a story only stays in the news cycle for so long and legitimate moral victories for the Right are few and far between. Worse still (for them), the final verdict in the Court of Public Opinion on Gunn has been "Disney may or may not have been right to fire James Gunn, but regardless, we're pretty sure he is not actually a pedophile."

So they managed to get Gunn fired from his job but failed to actually stick the narrative of "proving" that the left endorses kiddy-f*cking. It's the closest they've been to a victory in a parched desert of failure, and it's still not enough to actually support their message.

So these antics amount to beating a dead horse in a desperate bid to earn a public opinion retrial. But there's a reason stories only stay in the news cycle for so long. People get sick of them and move on with their lives. To this end, it's unlikely that this effort will go as well for them as the previous did, since a) it's not like Disney can fire James Gunn again, and b) everyone's tired of the James Gunn story and doesn't want to hear it.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#88374: Aug 14th 2018 at 7:57:10 AM

Gunn was lucky he had so many people coming to his defence.

It says a lot about what kind of person he is, and a character reference goes a long way.

But yeah, the Alt Right got lucky with him, but in the end their luck didn't last because unlike most who do stupid things, Gunn regretted it long before it got exposed.

One Strip! One Strip!
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#88375: Aug 14th 2018 at 9:49:22 AM

I am still not sure how much of this was regret and how much was simply opportunity, but I guess it doesn't matter in the end. If after all the media attention nobody came forward with a juicy story about him, it is pretty likely that there is nothing there outside of those tweets.

The whole "on both sides" defence is naturally BS, but hey, they got away with it so long, this is how they got Trump elected, but suggesting to people that Hillary was just as bad if not worse than him.

But if Disney even considered rehiring James Gunn, this will be a reason to not do it, because they will want the story to die down.


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