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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Luigisan98 A wandering user from Venezuelan Muscat Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: I <3 love!
A wandering user
#88126: Aug 2nd 2018 at 8:02:46 AM

[up] Actually, they don't even come up in Marvel and Star Wars films, so it's pointless anyway.

The only good fanboy, is a redeemed fanboy.
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#88127: Aug 2nd 2018 at 8:10:00 AM

Doesn't Disney have another distribution company they use for stuff that doesn't fit the Disney image?

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Luigisan98 A wandering user from Venezuelan Muscat Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: I <3 love!
A wandering user
#88128: Aug 2nd 2018 at 8:12:27 AM

[up]Touchstone Pictures

Edited by Luigisan98 on Aug 2nd 2018 at 7:13:43 PM

The only good fanboy, is a redeemed fanboy.
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#88129: Aug 2nd 2018 at 8:20:19 AM

Touchstone has been practically defunct for a few years now, and it hasn't the same draw Fox has, being a traditional studio.

Naturally Disney has its off-colour moment, but the question was if they held themselves to a higher standard than anyone else back then and the answer is: Yes, they did. It was only the difference between having an off-colour moment once in a while and being rampart racist, complete with watermelons and gambling stereotypes, but it was a higher standard, in that Disney did not think that Bugs Bunny giving out bombs disguised as popsicles to Japanese caricatures while uttering racist slurs was in any way funny. Even their war cartoons were more about education and actually understanding the mechanism behind the Third Reich than blatant hatred.

Naturally this higher standard is from todays perspective a lower standard. But Disney always strived to maintain a certain image. It is practically baked into the company. The brand is more important than anything else.

I mean, this is why Touchstone exists in the first place, isn't it? To protect the brand.

Luigisan98 A wandering user from Venezuelan Muscat Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: I <3 love!
A wandering user
#88130: Aug 2nd 2018 at 8:26:20 AM

[up] No, it's still active.

The only good fanboy, is a redeemed fanboy.
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#88131: Aug 2nd 2018 at 9:22:01 AM

[up] Only for Co-productions. It hasn't released an own production since 2010, and the last time it released something which can be considered a Disney Product instead of some Dreamworks/Fox/whoever production was when they did Strange Magic...and that was most likely mostly because it was George Lucas Pet Project. Otherwise it is a long list of "distribution only".

Edited by Swanpride on Aug 2nd 2018 at 9:24:56 AM

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#88132: Aug 2nd 2018 at 2:35:02 PM

For anyone worried about what's going to happen to FOX once Disney owns them, I refer you to the panic that happened over what was going to happen to Marvel now that Disney owns them.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Aug 2nd 2018 at 3:40:46 AM

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#88133: Aug 2nd 2018 at 2:52:15 PM

I’m not really concerned about the content of Fox’s films under Disney, so much as about the output.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#88134: Aug 2nd 2018 at 6:28:34 PM

I'm not concerned about that either...well, there might be less Superhero movies without Fox adding their ideas to the schedule, but then, they were kind of erratic about that anyway, plus, I have rather less of them if I get quality instead.

Shippudentimes Since: Dec, 2012
#88135: Aug 2nd 2018 at 7:01:45 PM

[up][up], [up] I mean, if you want to look at something that was truly Disney-esque that was put out by Fox recently, look at The Greatest Showman, which even then isn't that squeaky-clean, just barely touching on race/race riots, smoking, drinking, marital strife, and assumed adultery.

Mizerous Pet Owner from Hell Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: Brewing the love potion
Pet Owner
#88136: Aug 2nd 2018 at 7:37:40 PM

Apocalypse: EVERYTHING THEY BUILT WILL FALL! Mickey: *Wields Keyblade* And from the ashes of your world. We will make a better one!

Edited by Mizerous on Aug 2nd 2018 at 10:38:07 AM

Just Makima.
windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#88137: Aug 2nd 2018 at 10:59:25 PM

We Have RDJ to Thank for That Emotional Scene in Avengers: Infinity War

According to The Hollywood Reporter, in the commentary track for the film, the Russo brothers reveal that, initially, the drawn out scene between Peter and Tony wasn’t supposed to last that long. Like most of the characters, he was supposed to maybe get a few words out and then crumble into dust. “If I remember correctly, it was [in the script] ‘I don’t feel too good.’ Tony looked down at him. He said, ‘I’m sorry’ and disappeared,” Joe Russo says in the commentary.

However, the brilliant, beautiful, and cruel mind of Robert Downey Jr. knew that it would be more emotional if the scene was dragged out to really get the impact of the bond that we’ve seen develop between Peter and Tony between the three films they’ve been in together. Considering the fact that Tony found himself responsible for this teenage boy, it’s a great reminder that when Tony is calling Peter “kid,” it’s not just a nickname.

https://www.themarysue.com/thanks-mr-stark/

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#88139: Aug 2nd 2018 at 11:52:56 PM

Whut? Disney didn't purchase Fox so that they can get more Disney style movies. They purchased Fox because what Fox does and what Disney does is covering totally different genres. Disney is known for their animated movies. Fox animation studios only made a handful of films and while they have purchased Bluesky at one point, none of those movies come even close to Disney's and Pixar's success. Disney is known for its family friendly entertainment, Fox has quite a number of horror franchises in its library. Disney, for all the prices it has won, has in all this years never won a best picture Academy award (though, personally, I think Mary Poppins should have won over My fair Lady), while Fox, especially Fox Searchlight, can brag about a long list of wins.

The only area in which Disney and Fox seriously overlap is that they both have made movies based on Marvel properties. But personally I am in the "I want Marvel to have their I Ps back", boat. Fox run on the X-men has been extremely hit and miss (actually, more miss than hit...Sony has a better success rate than they have), and if I never see a Fantastic 4 movie made by Fox again it would still be too soon.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#88140: Aug 3rd 2018 at 7:25:34 AM

Heimdall’s (Idris Elba) last ditch effort to save the Hulk by opening the rainbow bridge is a callback of sorts to The Avengers when Thor commented that Odin had used all of his “dark magic” to get him home and some viewers complained that was a cheat. “You just saw where the dark magic came from — straight out of Heimdall.”

That feels like a Voodoo Shark.

It's also a Mass Effect meme. Mass Effect 2 talked a lot about the spread of Dark Energy influencing the galaxy with potentially apocalyptic consequences. Like, stars are dying faster because of it. At the same time, a black character, Jacob, was introduced as a love interest. So the gaming community started joking that Dark Energy was the name for his mojo.

Early drafts featured scenes with Thanos attacking the planet Xandar, but they decided it would have been redundant and repetitive. They instead narrowed the focus to make every stone acquisition as more affecting and character-based.

I think that was for the best. In my opinion, never seeing the siege of Xandar makes it more disturbing.

Some viewers have speculated that it’s fear on Banner’s part that prevents his transformation into the Hulk, but it’s actually the Hulk who’s grown tired of playing hero.

You know, that actually makes me feel better about this particular subplot. It gels with the Hulk that we saw in Ragnarok, who just wanted to stay on Sakaar and be the Champion with his hot girlfriend and luxurious suite.

Banner never wanted the Hulk to be a weapon. The Hulk is fine with being a weapon, but is tired of being used to fight other people's battles and getting nothing out of it for himself. I buy that.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
NativeJovian Jupiterian Local from Orlando, FL Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Jupiterian Local
#88141: Aug 3rd 2018 at 10:09:50 AM

That might have worked if they gave Hulk the characterization to support it. Originally he was just "is angry". By Ragnarok he seemed to have branched out to more "pure id" in general. He did what he wanted, whenever he wanted, and punched anything that tried to deny him what he wanted. As long as you satisfied his (rather simple) desires, he didn't care about anything else.

So suggesting that now he has some sort of moral objection to being taken advantage of seems like a bridge too far. He's always wanted to come out so he could be in control. The fact that the Hulk wants to be unleashed is one of the most basic things about him. That he doesn't want to be "out" in Infinity War is a dramatic shift in the character, and "he doesn't like being forced to do Banner's dirty work" doesn't mesh with any of his previous characterization.

"He's afraid" is about the only explanation that does fit, because fear is also a pure id thing. Even if it's irrational, like it is in Infinity War. Does Hulk think that hiding behind Banner is going to protect him somehow? If Banner dies because the Hulk wouldn't come out, does the Hulk think he'll survive? The answer is: he hasn't thought that far ahead. It's scary, so Hulk doesn't want to go. That's all there is to it.

Edited by NativeJovian on Aug 3rd 2018 at 1:12:28 PM

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#88142: Aug 3rd 2018 at 10:13:36 AM

I don't think Hulk was pure id in Ragnarok.

There's an interesting moment where he has to choose to side with his friend or with his thousands of cheering fans and he does decide to kick Thor's face in but the fact that he even hesitated suggests more complexity.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
it's a living
#88143: Aug 3rd 2018 at 10:16:59 AM

[up][up]What about Ragnarok? He'd developed quite a bit in that, spent quite a while keeping control away from Bruce, wasn't at all eager to go back to the way things were — with Banner or with the Avengers. Because they do keep him around just to do their dirty work, and keep him in the cage that is Bruce Banner's self-control the rest of the time.

[nja]

Edited by Unsung on Aug 3rd 2018 at 11:17:22 AM

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#88144: Aug 3rd 2018 at 10:35:32 AM

I actually like the idea that the Hulk is afraid of something for the first time in his existence better. But okay, that one works too….

HarpieSiren Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: I've been dreaming of True Love's Kiss
#88145: Aug 3rd 2018 at 10:37:48 AM

It's not that he has a moral objection to being taken advantage of. He just very much doesn't want things to go back to the status quo of only getting to come out when Banner has something he needs to smash.

He wants things to be on his terms, not Banner's.

NativeJovian Jupiterian Local from Orlando, FL Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Jupiterian Local
#88146: Aug 3rd 2018 at 10:38:46 AM

"Pure id" doesn't mean he can't be conflicted. Thor is his friend — they've smashed things together before! — so he doesn't want to fight his friend. But the crowd wants him to fight, and he wants the crowd to keep loving him. "no want smash friend" and "no want crowd to stop loving me" are both pretty basic id-level motivations.

[up][up][up]If Hulk hates being caged up inside Banner's psyche, then refusing to come out doesn't make sense. In that case, he should be coming out every chance he gets and then refusing to "go back in" — which is his usual MO. Infinity War is unique in that he refuses to come out at all.

[up][up]Yeah, I read it as Hulk is basically a child. Usually he's angry, so he reacts by lashing out (ie, smashing). This time he's afraid, so he reacts like a child does — by hiding.

[up]Eh, that's still more complex line of thought than we've ever seen from MCU Hulk, even in Ragnarok. Desire is: want out. Situation is: being offered the chance to come out. Reaction is: refuses to come out? I don't think we've ever seen Hulk do any sort of forward thinking like that.

Edited by NativeJovian on Aug 3rd 2018 at 1:40:01 PM

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#88147: Aug 3rd 2018 at 10:39:05 AM

They need to work out a time share arrangement.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
HarpieSiren Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: I've been dreaming of True Love's Kiss
Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
it's a living
#88149: Aug 3rd 2018 at 10:49:02 AM

I'm not objecting to the idea that he's afraid, just the part about "That's all there is to it." He's more id than most, but he's no longer just Bruce Banner's inner rage monster. He's grown. Pun intended.

Edited by Unsung on Aug 3rd 2018 at 11:48:35 AM


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