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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#87976: Jul 30th 2018 at 2:43:09 PM

Most terrorists are basically alt-righter. Though there have been some cases of left-wing terrorism, too, but those are few and far between and tend to be more targeted.

Anyway, the Cast timed the release of the letter pretty well by waiting until the shareholder voting regarding the fox deal was over. I doubt that Disney would have appreciated it if they had stirred up the topic before.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#87977: Jul 30th 2018 at 5:08:23 PM

The idea that James Gunn needs to be fired because Pedo Jokes are "unacceptable" for a director of a comic book film to make is ridiculous, especially after he apologized well before it resurfaced.

James Gunn has never apologized for making jokes about pedophilia. This is the single most pervasive myth surrounding the issue. James Gunn. Has never. Apologized. For the pedophilia jokes.

It's not a thing. It never happened. It is a lie sold by people more concerned with exonerating Gunn in the court of public opinion than with factual accuracy.

Let me explain what people are referring to when they say that James Gunn has apologized in the past.

In 2012, Gunn was hired to direct Guardians of the Galaxy. This decision was controversial and he immediately came under fire, but not for anything on his Twitter. No, the problem was a blog post he'd made in 2011 called "The 50 Superheroes You Most Want to Have Sex With".

A most f*ckable supers list seemed crass for someone meant to direct an MCU product, and so controversy emerged around whether or not James Gunn was too misogynistic to direct this film. Criticism also centered around language in his most f*ckable supers list that seemed homophobic.

GLAAD reached out to Gunn on the matter and he issued an apology for his blog post.

A couple of years ago I wrote a blog that was meant to be satirical and funny. In rereading it over the past day I don't think it's funny. The attempted humor in the blog does not represent my actual feelings. However, I can see where statements were poorly worded and offensive to many. I'm sorry and regret making them at all. People who are familiar with me as evidenced by my Facebook page and other mediums know that I'm an outspoken proponent for the rights of the gay and lesbian community, women and anyone who feels disenfranchised, and it kills me that some other outsider like myself, despite his or her gender or sexuality, might feel hurt or attacked by something I said. We're all in the same camp, and I want to do my best to make this world a better place for all of us. I'm learning all the time. I promise to be more careful with my words in the future. And I will do my best to be funnier as well. Much love to all

This is the apology that everyone is referring to when they say he's apologized for his Tweets in the past. It had nothing to do with his Twitter, it had nothing to do with pedophilic jokes, and it was only issued under pressure from his controversial hiring.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Moroaica Since: Aug, 2017
#87978: Jul 30th 2018 at 5:20:53 PM

Ah, well I still don't think he needed to apologize for jokes anyhow. But still he hasn't make a tweet like that, and since nobody brought it up I don't see why he'd need to dig them up and publicly apologize.

Disney still jumped the gun.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#87979: Jul 30th 2018 at 5:23:35 PM

And that's fair.

I'm just tired of hearing people say, "Disney already knew about this! And he apologized for it! They clearly only did this to appease the Nazis, because his pedophilic Tweets have been public knowledge for years and they never cared about it before!"

James Gunn had been a controversial figure previously, that much is true, but the previous controversy was comparatively tame. Making jokes that seem to be endorsing pedophilia is a bit worse than some sexist and homophobic language in a F*ckable Superheroes list, and Disney appears to have decided that it's over the line of what they're willing to condone.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Jul 30th 2018 at 6:25:48 AM

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#87980: Jul 30th 2018 at 5:30:41 PM

James Gunn had been a controversial figure previously, that much is true, but the previous controversy was comparatively tame. Making jokes that seem to be endorsing pedophilia is a bit worse than some sexist and homophobic language in a F*ckable Superheroes list, and Disney appears to have decided that it's over the line of what they're willing to condone.

Does this address why Disney had not taken action about those tweets before? Or why they haven’t fired other more recent provocateurs like James Woods?

Edited by Tuckerscreator on Jul 30th 2018 at 5:32:50 AM

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#87981: Jul 30th 2018 at 5:47:00 PM

They probably didn't know about them. They seemed to be blindsided by the whole F*ckable Superheroes list in the first place back when that was the big thing, so it's likely that they don't delve very deeply into their employees' social media history. See also: that time Roseanne got a show like her entire Twitter history wasn't even a thing.

Here's the thing.

I think the severity of pedophilia gets heavily downplayed in the James Gunn discourse. In the haste to condemn Disney for not taking similar action against others, it feels as if we're suggesting that all offenses are equal. But they're not.

Pedophilia is considered to be one of the Big Ones as far as offenses go. Like, there's a reason why child molesters need to be separated from a prison population for their own safety; even drug dealers, murderers, and rapists consider pedophilia to be unspeakably evil. It is, in our society, considered to be one of the worst possible crimes you could ever commit.

James Gunn, to our knowledge, has never molested a child. He is not, so far as we know, in possession of child pornography. He made jokes endorsing pedophilia and that is the extent of his known relationship with it.

But given both their nature as a company and the severity with which pedophilia is treated in our society, I would not be surprised if Disney has a Zero-Tolerance Policy for pro-pedophilic sentiment. They're clearly willing to look the other way on other offenses (Johnny Depp), but if you give them cause to wonder if children, specifically, are safe around you? They're likely to err on the side of caution.

James Gunn, at one point in his life, decided that he wanted people to see him as a pedophile. For the purpose of comedy, mind you, but an endorsement all the same. Disney now knows about this, and have responded accordingly.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Jul 30th 2018 at 6:51:41 AM

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#87982: Jul 30th 2018 at 5:59:01 PM

He did not make jokes endorsing pedophilia. You keep saying this, and it's not becoming any truer. You are wrong. He made jokes about pedophilia. He made jokes in relation to pedophilia. He did NOT make jokes endorsing pedophilia.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#87983: Jul 30th 2018 at 6:05:42 PM

[up]

He made Pedophilia related jokes. Does anything else about it really matter?

See, as much as we all hate that Gunn was fired, and the person who caused it to happen, we all have to recognize that GUNN FUCKED UP.

He said those things, and then someone found them and brought them to light. He messed up for real, and is now paying for it.

It's good that he's not doing stuff like that anymore, but that's still his mistake and he's got to own up to it. He is owning up to it.

People are supporting him, but no one is denying that he did it. That's just how it is. It sucks but he messed up.

One Strip! One Strip!
wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#87984: Jul 30th 2018 at 6:06:50 PM

Yeah, horrible, awful jokes ABOUT pedophilia is not endorsing it.

Also, Johnny Depp literally assaulted Amber Heard and several other people, yet he’s still at Disney. Because a bunch of women (and some male allies) demanded his removal, not a foaming insta-mob of Cernovich fans.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#87985: Jul 30th 2018 at 6:08:42 PM

There is a big difference between using pedophilia jokes for shock value because pedophilia is such a horrifying thing and using pedophilia jokes to talk about why pedophilia should totally be legalized. Gunn did the former, he did NOT do the latter.

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#87986: Jul 30th 2018 at 6:10:39 PM

I think we're missing the most important take away here

Which is how powerful Pom's signature is

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#87987: Jul 30th 2018 at 6:14:16 PM

It is a very strong signature.

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#87988: Jul 30th 2018 at 6:27:06 PM

I will point out James Woods has, along with his bigoted insults on Twitter, been accused of hitting on underage girls by multiple women.

Amber Tamblyn: At one point [Woods] suggested we should all go to Las Vegas together. "It’s such a great place, have you ever been?" You tried to make it sound innocent. This is something predatory men like to do, I’ve noticed.

I told you my age, kindly and with no judgment or aggression. I told you my age because I thought you would be immediately horrified and take back your offer. You laughed and said, "Even better. We’ll have so much fun, I promise."

If Disney truly has a Zero-Tolerance Policy against pedophiliac behavior, then they should take action against the actual pedophile that they're still hiring to this day for their parks, rather than only on one who tweeted stupid jokes about it.

Edited by Tuckerscreator on Jul 30th 2018 at 6:29:32 AM

TheAirman Brightness from The vicinity of an area adjacent to a location Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Historians will say we were good friends.
Brightness
#87989: Jul 30th 2018 at 8:20:42 PM

While it is true he never properly apologized, so to speak, for the tweets, he did reference his Twitter history in a regretful manner in an interview with buzzfeed last summer.

"I protect myself by writing scenes where people shoot people in the face," Gunn said, chuckling. "And if I have to think around shooting someone in the face, it's harder, but I think it's more rewarding for me." He cleared his throat. "I felt like Guardians forced me into a much deeper way of thinking about, you know, my relationship to people, I suppose. I was a very nasty guy on Twitter. It was a lot fucking edgy, in-your-face, dirty stuff. I suddenly was working for Marvel and Disney, and that didn't seem like something I could do anymore. I thought that that would be a hindrance on my life. But the truth was it was a big, huge opening for me. I realized, a lot of that stuff is a way that I push away people. When I was forced into being this" — he moved his hand over his chest — "I felt more fully myself."

And what's "this"?

"Sensitive, I guess?" he said. "Positive. I mean, I really do love people. And by not having jokes to make about whatever was that offensive topic of the week, that forced me into just being who I really was, which was a pretty positive person. It felt like a relief."

Also worthy of note, and something I only learned reading this interview and haven't seen mentioned anywhere, is that Gunn himself attended a school overseen by a pedophile priest:

Gunn's passion for comics has certainly served his career well, but as a child, it was not something he was eager to share. "Comics were not something that as a young kid you could say you were into in Manchester, Missouri," he said darkly. His voice, usually a couple notches louder than necessary, dropped to a murmur. "Kids did not read comic books back then. I hid it from people. … [It was] a very parochial town. Very Catholic. I think my brothers and my sister and I always had an open way of thinking about things, and that wasn't always a valued commodity within the town I grew up."

Starting around fifth grade, Gunn said that his school became dominated by "pretty maniacal bullies" who made his life hell. "It's become such a thing to say that you were bullied or fucked with or whatever, but that's what my upbringing was like," Gunn said. "I was, like, 11 and 12 years old, and I was in a school where people were fucking and doing drugs and drinking. I guess I thought that's what kids did."

The catalyst for that behavior, according to Gunn, was his school's monsignor, Russell J. Obmann. At the time, Gunn said he knew Obmann was giving young boys in his class alcohol and pornography — it was only much later that he understood the full magnitude of Obmann's behavior. "I didn't realize that the priest was molesting these kids, and that created this incredible society of fucked-up-ed-ness in my class," Gunn said as he began restlessly swiveling in his chair with discomfort. "It even became a thing where, like, these notes were found by the teachers in my school of people passing notes, talking about drugs and sex. This was in fifth grade."

...

Gunn said Obmann never targeted him, and eventually the priest relocated to a different parish. (Obmann died of cancer in 2000; his St. Louis Post-Dispatch obituary notes he retired in 1993 after serving in multiple parishes, but does not mention any abuse. A representative for the St. Louis Archdioceses did not respond to a request from Buzz Feed News to comment.) Still, the experience was scarring for Gunn, in part because he said no adults in his life seemed to take it seriously.

"I love my parents very much," Gunn said. "They're very embarrassed by it today, but I would say, 'Hey, mom and dad, Father Obmann is taking the kids over to the rectory and he's showing them porn movies and giving them beer,'" he recalled. "And they're like, 'Aw, Jimmy.' You know, this was back in the '80s, before people were sensitive to that stuff. They just thought we were making up something about the monsignor at our school."

Deeply alienated from so many of his classmates, and disillusioned by the authority figures in his life, Gunn burrowed further into his pop culture obsessions. He especially delighted in horror, particularly the classic Universal monster movies. "Every time I could, I would watch Creature from the Black Lagoon or House of Frankenstein or the original Dracula," he said. Seeing as this is the guy who would eventually turn a lethal-if-lumbering talking tree and a green-skinned assassin into beloved movie characters, it's clear his attraction to these films weren’t just about being afraid. "Mostly, I was into the monsters,” he said. “I think I loved the monsters. I even felt sorry for Wolfman and Dracula and all of them."

He paused. "I think I felt like the monster."

Edited by TheAirman on Jul 30th 2018 at 10:23:54 AM

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Luigisan98 A wandering user from Venezuelan Muscat Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: I <3 love!
A wandering user
#87990: Jul 30th 2018 at 9:30:19 PM

James Gunn is a good man, no matter the way he jokes, and outright implying from his tweets is downright moronic.

The only good fanboy, is a redeemed fanboy.
ExplosiveIsamu00 Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
#87991: Jul 30th 2018 at 11:12:35 PM

I'm pretty shocked that people here would even imply he's endorsing pedophilia by his jokes. Get a grip, folks.

Luigisan98 A wandering user from Venezuelan Muscat Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: I <3 love!
A wandering user
#87992: Jul 30th 2018 at 11:18:16 PM

[up] It's just difficult how to distinguish joking for fun or for endorsing nowadays...

The only good fanboy, is a redeemed fanboy.
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#87993: Jul 30th 2018 at 11:19:20 PM

Those kinds of jokes aren’t very funny though.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#87994: Jul 30th 2018 at 11:25:47 PM

They're not funny, but there are huge gaps between "unfunny", "offensive", and "dangerous". Some of Gunn's jokes went into the second category, but none of them fell in the third.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#87995: Jul 30th 2018 at 11:32:53 PM

I don't know if Gunn is a good man. I don't know him personally. The only thing I can tell is that the actors he worked with are ready to speak up for him. If for example Nicole Perlman would too is another question.

I am pretty neutral about the whole matter. I don't think that Disney made a mistake when they acted swiftly and fired him. I wouldn't be angry if they stick to their guns. But if they think they can weather the controversy and if they have by now dig deep enough into Gunn's past that they feel comfortable to do so, it would be okay with me too. I just hate this narrative which plays what Gunn did down, or which acts as if Disney's reaction was unreasonable. It wasn't.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#87996: Jul 30th 2018 at 11:50:37 PM

I would respect Disney if they bothered to kick out the people who are causing some pretty harmful shit like Woods & Depp.

I mean it ain’t no secret what those assholes are doing after all.

Cause it’s damn fucked up that the people currently causing shit are running around free. It should be equal, ya fuck up big time ya should get punished then.

Edited by slimcoder on Jul 30th 2018 at 11:53:49 AM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Luigisan98 A wandering user from Venezuelan Muscat Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: I <3 love!
A wandering user
#87997: Jul 31st 2018 at 12:08:08 AM

What other atrocity has Depp comitted other than abusing one of his ex-wives?

The only good fanboy, is a redeemed fanboy.
windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#87998: Jul 31st 2018 at 12:51:06 AM

[up]He's had previous instances of violent behaviour like trashing a hotel room, assaulting a security guard and assaulting band mates.

Anyway, is Depp even involved in any future Disney projects? I know, there's a sixth Pirates movie coming out but I don't know if he'll be part of it.

Edited by windleopard on Feb 5th 2019 at 7:15:07 AM

Luigisan98 A wandering user from Venezuelan Muscat Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: I <3 love!
A wandering user
#87999: Jul 31st 2018 at 12:52:47 AM

[up] Damn...not sure if it was him being violent all along...or became unstable once his star power drained out.

As long he stays in Pirates, it won't be much of an issue.

Edited by Luigisan98 on Jul 31st 2018 at 11:54:41 PM

The only good fanboy, is a redeemed fanboy.
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#88000: Jul 31st 2018 at 1:15:30 AM

The whole "Trashing a hotel room" and "Assaulting his band mates" stuff is from his "young wild years" when it was kind of part of his stick to act out as much as possible in order to get away from his "pretty boy" image. There is a huge gap of no scandal whatsoever between those incidents and the accusations of having hit his third (I think it was the third) wife. If he hadn't developed a history of turning up drunk on set since the divorce, there would be little reason for Disney to fire him.

Not that I don't think that he is an a-hole.


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