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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
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    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

czhang from Canada Since: Sep, 2011 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#87826: Jul 22nd 2018 at 6:53:44 PM

Also his other movies (Boy, Hunt for the Wilderpeople, What We Do In The Shadows) have plenty of quiet, somber moments and emotional beats that are handled well. Especially in Boy, which I actually found really melancholy and sad. They also all center around family themes so he's a good fit for Guardians if he's interested. It's an if, though, because he's said that he wants to go back to doing smaller New Zealand films and I'm not sure he'd sign on to do 2 Marvel franchises which would take him away from that.

Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#87827: Jul 22nd 2018 at 7:01:45 PM

I thought most of the dramatic moments in Ragnarok were given enough room to breathe, the joke with Korg at the end being the only one that sticks out to my mind as maybe a bit misplaced.

KarkatTheDalek Not as angry as the name would suggest. from Somwhere in Time/Space Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
Not as angry as the name would suggest.
#87828: Jul 22nd 2018 at 7:10:21 PM

I thought the bit where Bruce just falls out of the ship without Hulking our was kind of dumb.

I think everything is fine, though.

Oh God! Natural light!
XJTordecai Watch the seventh wave Since: Jun, 2013
Watch the seventh wave
#87829: Jul 22nd 2018 at 7:25:09 PM

Ragnarok has like <5 or so jokes that didn't really work for me, which I think is fine all things considered. It's probably my favorite MCU movie in terms of sheer fun and comedy, with only Got G 2 beating it out as a whole.

On my wave, passing oooooooon
Khfan429 Since: Aug, 2009
#87830: Jul 22nd 2018 at 9:19:00 PM

I'd argue that while the physical destruction of Asgard is the most immediately identifiable instance of undercutting a dramatic moment for the sake of a punchline, there's a lot of things in Ragnarok that just... don't really work.

The biggest thing for me is how the movie handles the death of the Warriors Three, because it is just... insulting. Some of my friends like to say "well, it doesn't matter, the Warriors Three were super-underdeveloped in the movies anyways", and just... then why even bother?!?

I know Feige said it was to hype up Hela, but that's totally unnecessary because we just saw her take on Thor and Loki together, shattering Mjolnir in the process. If we see a bad guy shatter Captain America's shield, you don't also need to kill Bucky and Falcon to get it across that they're a badass, that's implicit in shattering the unbreakable shield.

So what's the purpose? The Warriors Three as individuals don't have enough of an appearance across the films to really connect with them as characters, and it isn't necessary to hype up Hela because of that (because who really cares if she roflstomps three Asgardians who aren't Thor?), so that just leaves killing them to have an emotional impact on Thor. And that doesn't happen either. At no point does Thor ever find out that his best friends are dead, and Infinity War even seems to shift the position of Thor's best friend over to Heimdall instead per his conversation with Rocket. So for all intents and purposes, there seems to be no purpose for killing the Warriors Three other than just doing it.

Ragnarok in general feels, at least to me, like Taika Waititi caring too much about making a "fun" movie to worry about making a "Thor" movie, not only because he tosses out so many important elements to Thor but doesn't really seem to care about making the audience care that those things are gone. I honestly felt more for the breaking of Mjolnir than I did for the destruction of an entire planet, and it's frustrating because I don't have a problem with fun movies, but I do wish that a movie called "Ragnarok" had a little more gravitas and weight to it.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#87831: Jul 22nd 2018 at 9:42:56 PM

I'll also add that I don't think this ruins the previous Guardians movies in the same way that, say, the Harvey Weinstein reveal colors everything he's ever had a hand in. It's not like Peter Gunn was molesting people on-set or something. The headline is not "Zoe Saldana comes forward with horrible revelations about Gunn's behavior during shooting."

I'm glad he made the films that he did and I wish him the best of luck in the future. I just also completely understand and agree with Disney's decision to go, "Jesus Christ, those tweets are absolutely not the kind of thing we want to ever be associated with our brand."

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#87833: Jul 22nd 2018 at 10:02:39 PM

[up][up]I think people are more concerned with the precedent of Mike Cervonich being validated in any way. By itself the decision is understandable, although those tweets were public knowledge for years and if it was really a problem then they shouldn't have hired him to begin with.

I'm not particularly concerned about Gunn himself, both because it's understandable that actions have consequences and that directors who have done far worse still end up getting work even after being exposed.

Edited by Draghinazzo on Jul 22nd 2018 at 1:03:50 PM

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#87834: Jul 22nd 2018 at 11:25:09 PM

frankly, I never think that what a director or actor did ruins any movie because movies are a group project and it is pretty likely that there are people who have done really sh... things involved in a lot of them, we usually just don't pay attention if it is some production Assistent or cutter or whatever.

There are cases in which the toxic point of view of a director or writer bleeds into a movie, but then the problem is the movie itself.

Anyway, none of this will change how I see the Got G movies...I think Disney should walk the middle ground there, sever ties with James Gunn in the eyes of the public, but acknowledge the contribution he made to the franchise in the eyes of the fans...and, if possible, use his draft for the third movie.

SilentColossus (Don’t ask)
#87835: Jul 22nd 2018 at 11:49:42 PM

I'd be surprised if Disney didn't know about the tweets before hiring him, let alone after the first outcry. Like a lot of jobs dig through a person's social media before hiring them, should we assume Disney is different?

Edited by SilentColossus on Jul 22nd 2018 at 11:50:06 AM

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#87836: Jul 22nd 2018 at 11:52:56 PM

[up] They knew he made potentially offensive tweets. I doubt that they read enough of them to know that there were quite a few in which he joked about sex in relation to underage boys.

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#87837: Jul 22nd 2018 at 11:55:30 PM

The first Guardians has a gag where Peter claims to have jacked off everywhere inside his ship. There’s no way Disney was in the dark about Gunn, particularly when he discussed these themselves in interviews.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#87838: Jul 22nd 2018 at 11:59:32 PM

[up] Yes, but he didn't make the joke as an adult, not while he was still a child. There is a difference.

BigK1337 Since: Jun, 2012
#87839: Jul 23rd 2018 at 12:49:19 AM

Honestly I am amazed Disney just NOW found out about the tweets laced with tasteless jokes (honestly I only laughed at the one tweet where its says “10 Girls Touching Themselves and provided a video link to a choir of ten girls singing to the song “I Touch Myself. James Gunn has an edgelord sense of humor, which really is reflected on how he got his start as a director (he did used to work for Troma, the same film company that gave us Trey Parker and Matt Stone). I am honestly surprise Disney even hired him the first place given how majority of his content isn’t family friendly.

I think Tobias Drake summed it up nicely. Gunn’s tweets are merely just jokes from the past that he most likely have moved away from since then, but Disney does have the right to fire him for such comments to ensure a potential PR nightmare wouldn’t hit them. Which is still a shame as now Got G Vol. 3 is without the guy that brought these characters to life and we won’t get the completed work of the director’s vision for this series.

windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#87840: Jul 23rd 2018 at 4:03:10 AM

Marvel Offers Grief Counseling at Comic-Con for Fans Traumatized by the End of Infinity War

https://io9.gizmodo.com/marvel-offers-grief-counseling-at-comic-con-for-fans-tr-1827781404

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#87841: Jul 23rd 2018 at 4:13:13 AM

Man I love how Marvel’s rolling with this. [lol]

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#87842: Jul 23rd 2018 at 5:51:27 AM

Damn, the gallery of posters doesn't load for me...I would love to know which quotes they use.

Love the group hug with the Hulk. Normally I don't quite get the appeal of Comic con, but this sounds like a lot of fun.

Mario1995 The Dishonorable from Atlanta Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
The Dishonorable
#87843: Jul 23rd 2018 at 9:39:04 AM

Has anyone noticed that Kevin Feige hasn't weighed in on the Gunn controversy at all? The fact that Alan Horn was the one who made the statement announcing Gunn's termination suggests that Marvel Studios may have wanted Gunn to stay since he would be crucial for Phase 3 but was overruled by Horn.

If that's the case, the chances of Feige quitting in the future just went way up, potentially putting the entire MCU in jeopardy.

No wonder Disney shareholders are panicking right now: they see Gunn's firing as the tip of the iceberg of a massive, unnecessary shakeup just to appease trolls. The fact that The Last Jedi failed to out-gross The Force Awakens seems to have convinced Disney to feed the trolls.

Edited by Mario1995 on Jul 23rd 2018 at 12:39:56 PM

"The devil's got all the good gear. What's God got? The Inspiral Carpets and nuns. Fuck that." - Liam Gallagher
Luigisan98 A wandering user from Venezuelan Muscat Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: I <3 love!
A wandering user
#87844: Jul 23rd 2018 at 9:41:55 AM

[up] If that's the case, then Kathleen would have been fired already but didn't. This is another case here.

The only good fanboy, is a redeemed fanboy.
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#87845: Jul 23rd 2018 at 9:47:19 AM

Kevin Feige won't weight into this. Hell, the guy has put up with Perlmutter for years without ever saying a word. So whatever he thinks, he will gloss over it.

Disney has given Feige all the freedom in the world, he will hardly quit because the company understandably has no interest in being connected to paedophilia. Feige is too much of a realist to see this as the worst problem he can have working as producer for a studio.

Mario1995 The Dishonorable from Atlanta Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
The Dishonorable
#87846: Jul 23rd 2018 at 9:50:18 AM

[up]He will care once all the MCU stars threaten to quit or refuse to work for them. Already, Dave Bautista (Drax) has been making noise on Twitter about how bad the decision is and it's hard not to look at the tweets as a threat to quit. And if he quits, the other Guardians actors could follow.

Edited by Mario1995 on Jul 23rd 2018 at 12:51:49 PM

"The devil's got all the good gear. What's God got? The Inspiral Carpets and nuns. Fuck that." - Liam Gallagher
Luigisan98 A wandering user from Venezuelan Muscat Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: I <3 love!
A wandering user
#87847: Jul 23rd 2018 at 9:53:23 AM

[up] Again, unless Nicole Perlman can work out as a director, it's clear that something needs to be done, unless Peter Gunn thinks someone else should step in for his work as both to ease tensions and to have more self-reflection on his past deeds. And probably, encourage the actors to go easy on the new director.

The only good fanboy, is a redeemed fanboy.
Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
it's a living
#87848: Jul 23rd 2018 at 10:32:31 AM

It'd be nice if people weren't under threat of being fired over jokes from ten years ago, but I don't think threatening to quit would be the right way to handle this. If Disney is going to reverse their decision, it should be because they can see that this controversy was stirred up in bad faith, not because their stars are holding themselves ransom. I don't think it would work out well for anyone to make this into a pure business decision, or to stoke the controversy any further. That's exactly what the Cernoviches of the world would want, and would probably only serve to tarnish everyone involved. (More so.)

It's good to see the cast coming together and supporting Gunn, that speaks well of him and them. But making Disney into the bad guy here, turning it into a fight, that's just going to cause more harm. Like I said, James Gunn owning up is probably the best thing he can do. He seems genuinely contrite, and that helps his case. But given the subject matter, Disney reacted about the only way they were ever going to. I don't know if they can really change their mind about this while still being Disney, but they definitely aren't going to do anything right now, while this is still headline news.

Edited by Unsung on Jul 23rd 2018 at 5:28:05 AM

CommanderAce Commander Thor from Planet Earth, United States Since: Oct, 2011 Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Commander Thor
#87849: Jul 23rd 2018 at 10:44:57 AM

I don't know how much sway Ike Perlmutter has over the Movie department of Marvel these days, but keep in mind he's the president of Marvel and very conservative leaning. There's the possibility that he could've said something about James Gunn to Alan Horn to get him fired. Correct me if I'm wrong, however, as I don't know how much sway he has over the movie department anymore.

Power of Thor!
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#87850: Jul 23rd 2018 at 11:25:49 AM

A reminder, it wasn't just "bad jokes from a few years ago" it was "bad jokes which were about having sex with children (or the giving tree f.... a boy)", and those jokes weren't the result of some misspend youth or teen stupidity, they are from the mind of a supposedly grown up man. If James Gunn had joked about ANYHTING else, Disney would have most likely gone the "it was before he worked for us and just like we gave Roseanne Barr a second chance, we gave him a second chance" route, and everything would have been fine.

Edited by Swanpride on Jul 23rd 2018 at 11:25:54 AM


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