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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
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    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#87751: Jul 21st 2018 at 12:52:23 PM

[up] Also the same kind of people which were angry when Disney pressured Atlanta in not passing an anti-Gay law and which just hate the idea of gay day at Disneyland.

Disney is complicated. It is a conservative company in that it is big on presenting a family friendly picture. But their anthem also contains the line "doesn't matter who you are" and while Disney needed some time to truly catch up with the thought to the level it should, it always was pretty inclusive in its hiring practices. It also tends to reflect society like it is, and in the current fight of right vs left, well, it is the company which created Zootopia. And Black Panther. There are financial aspects which play into those decisions, but with Disney "conservative" isn't necessarily synonym to "backwards". Don't expect them to do something truly subversive, they will always have an eye on the bottom line, but don't expect them to act like a Trumpist either.

CommanderAce Commander Thor from Planet Earth, United States Since: Oct, 2011 Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Commander Thor
#87752: Jul 21st 2018 at 12:59:19 PM

A thing that should not go unmentioned is that Cernovich has a rape charge against him, although he only got a sexual battery charge out of it in the end. His Wikipedia article has some more info on his transgressions if you want to look into it. Plus, here’s an article on An Open Secret’s ties to the alt right if you want a look. Basically, Gabe Hoffman gave a half-assed claim that “we take any opportunity for promotion”, yet clearly has a preference to these alt-right types, including Cernovich and Alex Jones, who both have rape charges against them.

Edited by CommanderAce on Jul 21st 2018 at 1:59:29 PM

Power of Thor!
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#87753: Jul 21st 2018 at 2:51:19 PM

Nobody's disputing that Cernovich is a Nazi toolbag. The question is: does it matter? The idea that we need to close ranks around Gunn and defend him because he's One of Us and Cernovich is One of Them is a corrosive philosophy. It is, in fact, the exact philosophy that has led to the rise of figures like Cernovich.

"Roy Moore might be a pedophile, but he's not a FILTHY DEMOCRAT!!!"

Don't be that movement. We can absolutely revile Cernovich and everything he stands for and also agree with the sentiment that someone who jokes about pedophilia doesn't belong at Disney. It is not a binary choice.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Jul 21st 2018 at 3:52:26 AM

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#87754: Jul 21st 2018 at 2:53:36 PM

Joked. Past tense. Years ago. And he said he regrets it. Years ago.

LordVatek Not really a lord of anything Since: Sep, 2014
Not really a lord of anything
#87755: Jul 21st 2018 at 2:57:55 PM

That doesn't really matter to Disney. All they care about is the headline "Disney director posts pedophilic tweets".

Edited by LordVatek on Jul 21st 2018 at 5:59:57 AM

This song needs more love.
Xopher001 Since: Jul, 2012
#87756: Jul 21st 2018 at 2:58:36 PM

I agree with Pushover Media Critic. These tweets Gunn made are almost a decade old- that’s a long time. Plus all these artists rushing to defend him suggests he’s really not the same person who made those tweets back then

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#87757: Jul 21st 2018 at 3:05:07 PM

Nobody's disputing that Cernovich is a Nazi toolbag. The question is: does it matter?

If it were simply some Republican figurehead calling for Gunn's firing, it would be a different and lower stakes situation, then now when it's someone whose rhetoric directly led to an armed gunman breaking into a restaurant and firing at people. If someone's perceived authority directly has lives at stake, then yes it does matter.

It is, in fact, the exact philosophy that has led to the rise of figures like Cernovich. "Roy Moore might be a pedophile, but he's not a FILTHY DEMOCRAT!!!"

There is a very, very, very obvious and massive distinction that Roy Moore had multiple testimonies accusing him of committing pedophilia. Gunn had testimony accusing him of tweeting pedophile jokes. That's definitely not equivalent.

Edited by Tuckerscreator on Jul 21st 2018 at 3:07:53 AM

CommanderAce Commander Thor from Planet Earth, United States Since: Oct, 2011 Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Commander Thor
#87758: Jul 21st 2018 at 3:12:18 PM

That’s my problem with this situation. Regardless of Gunn’s remarks and whether he has changed or not, the person calling for his firing is someone who encourages the kind of rhetoric that gets innocent people killed. That’s pretty scary that a studio caved because of him specifically. It sets a scary precedent and this is why I’m disgusted with the Open Secret producers for willingly associating with this kind of crowd.

Power of Thor!
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#87759: Jul 21st 2018 at 3:28:02 PM

It does no such thing. The precedent of people being fired because of horrible things they said on social media was set a long time ago.

The idea that Disney is in some way doing this specifically to show fealty to Cernovich and throw their doors open to Nazis is completely unfounded. Dude said awful things on Twitter, the public found out, and then he lost his job because they strongly disapproved of those things that he said.

We've heard this tale a million times before. The only difference is that the guy who lost his job this time was someone on "Our Side". This exact same argument happened when it was Al Franken sexually harassing people.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Jul 21st 2018 at 4:29:39 AM

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Invincibleasshole fuckANN from Not here Since: May, 2018 Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
fuckANN
#87760: Jul 21st 2018 at 3:29:57 PM

[[humor mode:the real reason James Gun was fired is because he directed the first two Scooby Doo movies]]

Edited by Invincibleasshole on Jul 21st 2018 at 3:31:39 AM

You're going to pay a price for every bloody thing you do and everything you don't do. You don't get to choose to not pay a price.
Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#87761: Jul 21st 2018 at 3:34:37 PM

It does no such thing. The precedent of people being fired because of horrible things they said on social media was set a long time ago.

And it's a precedent they ignored for Gunn for years and years until this specific event.

The idea that Disney is in some way doing this specifically to show fealty to Cernovich and throw their doors open to Nazis is completely unfounded.

They don't need to revere Cernovich to bestow credibility to his words. They just need to follow his words.

If Stephen Miller came to my house and told me "you should get a cat" and that weekend I go and buy a cat, fans of Stephen Miller will view it as "this guy likes Stephen Miller".

I will also say the comparison to Franken does not hold up because Franken never made any public acknowledgement or apology of his misdeeds before this year. Gunn did, multiple times.

Edited by Tuckerscreator on Jul 21st 2018 at 4:32:06 AM

Soble Since: Dec, 2013
#87762: Jul 21st 2018 at 3:40:13 PM

On a different topic...Cloak and Dagger is now fully official in the MCU. They name-dropped Misty last episode.

I glimpsed something that said there was a detective from Luke Cage who ended up moving over to Cloak and Dagger, or got name-dropped apparently. Not Misty, obviously.

I'M MR. MEESEEKS, LOOK AT ME!
Mizerous Pet Owner from Hell Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: Brewing the love potion
Pet Owner
#87763: Jul 21st 2018 at 4:30:29 PM

More like the Netflix MCU. I'm not sure if the Netflix stuff is remaining canon to the current events.

Just Makima.
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#87764: Jul 21st 2018 at 4:37:20 PM

I think it does, but it is a few years behind at this point.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#87765: Jul 21st 2018 at 5:55:30 PM

If Stephen Miller came to my house and told me "you should get a cat" and that weekend I go and buy a cat, fans of Stephen Miller will view it as "this guy likes Stephen Miller".

Conversely, if you actually liked the idea of getting a cat, then you should get a cat. Even though Stephen Miller suggested it. The idea of cat ownership is not ruined just because Miller endorsed it. We have a trope for that.

The reason Nazi ideas are bad is not because they came from Nazis. Nazi ideas are bad because the ideas themselves would be bad regardless of whether or not they were being proposed by Nazis. If we reject anything a Nazi agrees with regardless of merit, then we have to stop breathing oxygen. Nazis breathe oxygen.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Jul 21st 2018 at 6:58:14 AM

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Whowho Since: May, 2012
#87766: Jul 21st 2018 at 5:56:47 PM

Netflix shows don't happen in real time at all, so they've managed to lag behind. Last time I checked, Luke Cage 2 takes place just after Spider-man Homecoming, and I think Kevin has said that none of the netflix shows are at risk of spoiling the immediate aftermath of infinity War as none of the ones coming out between now and Avengers 4 are set after Infinity War.

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#87767: Jul 21st 2018 at 6:08:05 PM

If they're going to take it as an endorsement of Miller, and if I were someone powerful like the president of Disney with an audience of millions, then it's a problem of displaying tacit endorsement. Hitler Ate Sugar is a trope that takes place in a vacuum. It's a very different thing when there are fans of the person watching who would gladly bring out weapons if their idol asked them too.

If Disney were really certain they should fire Gunn for moral reasons, they should've done so with a public disavowal of Cernovich as well.

Edited by Tuckerscreator on Jul 21st 2018 at 6:12:48 AM

HarpieSiren Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: I've been dreaming of True Love's Kiss
#87768: Jul 21st 2018 at 6:13:13 PM

[up][up] I wonder if this places Cloak and Dagger around the same time.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#87769: Jul 21st 2018 at 6:33:22 PM

If Disney were really certain they should fire Gunn for moral reasons, they should've done so with a public disavowal of Cernovich as well.

I'd be ok with that. Hell, I bet Gunn would be okay with it. This Cernovich(sp) dude sounds like someone who should have Hitler Ate Sugar invoked on him.

Hell, if points up at the sky and says it's blue, he should be called a liar anyway.

One Strip! One Strip!
DrWillHatch63 Since: May, 2014
#87770: Jul 21st 2018 at 9:13:02 PM

I don't have anything new to add except my total disgust at this. Disney without a shred of doubt knew about Gunn's tweets for years and did nothing because they knew that they were totally harmless.

Caving into trolls and alt-right shitheads sets a bad precedent.

CommanderAce Commander Thor from Planet Earth, United States Since: Oct, 2011 Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Commander Thor
#87771: Jul 21st 2018 at 9:34:36 PM

In an update on the situation, it looks like Cernovich and the Open Secret mob are targeting Patton Oswalt and Michael Ian Black for tweets as well and naturally accusing them of being pedophiles or enablers.

Edited by CommanderAce on Jul 21st 2018 at 10:34:14 AM

Power of Thor!
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#87772: Jul 21st 2018 at 9:50:48 PM

Dammit!

We need to stop these guys! Now!

One Strip! One Strip!
Luigisan98 A wandering user from Venezuelan Muscat Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: I <3 love!
A wandering user
#87773: Jul 21st 2018 at 9:52:55 PM

[up] Exactly! We should take action, no matter what the shitheads accuse us!

The only good fanboy, is a redeemed fanboy.
CommanderAce Commander Thor from Planet Earth, United States Since: Oct, 2011 Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Commander Thor
#87774: Jul 21st 2018 at 9:57:22 PM

Oh, another strange thing, apparently even Ben Shapiro of all people is upset with Gunn's firing, as he claims it's a "bad precedent," whatever that means in his world. Ironic because it's arguable that Gunn arguing with Shapiro was what led to all of this. Also, this incident definitively establishes that the Open Secret documentary has been compromised and cannot be supported if pedophilia is to be dealt with in Hollywood or the world.

Power of Thor!
Lavaeolus Since: Jan, 2015
#87775: Jul 21st 2018 at 10:52:29 PM

EDIT: Truthfully, I think it might be worth me staying out of this argument for the moment, given some of the subject matter going on. Partly that I might be busy for the next few days and I don't want to say anything I can't give an appropriate response to. But probably mostly because right now I'm essentially an insomniac hyped up on fizzy pop shaking his fist against the summer sun, which probably isn't the ideal state to be in for a conversation.

I feel a bit guilty posting then immediately retracting, but I think it's for the best. Don't weigh things without a good rest and all that.

Edited by Lavaeolus on Jul 21st 2018 at 7:44:09 PM


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