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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
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If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#87401: Jul 2nd 2018 at 7:26:09 AM

I think Banner would have gotten offended at even being asked to pick a side. He wasn't even comfortable being an Avenger in the first place. As soon as the option was on the table to have the Hulk become officially folded into a military institution, Banner would walk. That's literally the one thing he's spent his life since that day trying to avoid.

So, not one of Tony's Avengers, despite his brohood with Tony. It would take some massive OOC writing for him to be comfortable letting the Hulk serve the United Nations, and even more massive OOC writing for him to be willing to take his marching orders from General Thunderbolt Ross of all people.

But what about Steve? Well, kinda the same problem. Steve has no pressing need or pretense for a gamma scientist. Any conversation he has with Banner is going to be, "I want the Hulk to smash for me." And that's going to leave Banner telling Steve where to shove it.

He tried to tell Thor where to shove it, but he was lost on an alien planet and Thor was his only ride home. Steve doesn't have that luxury.

So. Yeah. Who's side is Banner on? Nobody's. Banner finally takes his ball and goes home like he's been wanting to do for years.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Jul 2nd 2018 at 8:29:23 AM

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
GamerManDrew Since: Jun, 2018
#87402: Jul 2nd 2018 at 11:33:57 AM

Who's side do ya'll think Thor would've taken?

Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#87403: Jul 2nd 2018 at 11:35:02 AM

I think Thor would have gone with Captain America

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#87404: Jul 2nd 2018 at 11:35:09 AM

Depends on who gets to him first and better explains their position I think.

Cross (Don’t ask)
#87405: Jul 2nd 2018 at 11:41:03 AM

I can see Thor siding with neither because he has his own business to deal with that doesn't always involve Midgard. Post-Ragnarok though, assuming everyone made it to Earth, I can see him signing for the sake of his people.

Edited by Cross on Jul 2nd 2018 at 2:42:03 PM

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#87406: Jul 2nd 2018 at 12:27:34 PM

I think he'd side with Cap but wouldn't want to actually get involved in the fighting. He's not even an Earthling. Why would he want to take his marching orders from a human government?

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#87407: Jul 2nd 2018 at 12:43:09 PM

He’d be really annoyed with the government & Ross trying to control him.

Cause you know if Thor tells them to fuck off they’ll use every excuse imaginable to try to kill him.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#87408: Jul 2nd 2018 at 12:59:44 PM

Thor has always had a problem with the people he wants to protect not actually wanting his protection, mostly because Asgard placed Midgard under its authority ages ago even though most of the planet doesn't even know the Asgardians exist, and Thor only kinda sorta started realizing that's a bad thing during Ragnarok.

At around the time of Civil War, werehe on planetside he would've scoffed at the idea of submitting to Earth's government's authorities and bristled at their attempts to make him play ball, just like he did during Avengers 1. On the other hand, I'm not sure he would've joined Steve on ideological grounds, and since he only went after HYDRA to reclaim Loki's scepter I'm not sure he would've joined him on "there's psycho assassins about" grounds.

He probably would've ended up antagonistic to Tony's side but doing his own thing as always.

MedusaStone Since: Jan, 2015
#87409: Jul 2nd 2018 at 2:21:22 PM

The only way I could see Bruce signing the Accords is if it said in writing that if he signed and then retired, nobody could lawfully come after him as long as he kept his nose clean. And that's where his friendship with Tony would tank, because Tony would expect Bruce (and Hulk) to be an Avenger with him, and he has a big problem with people not doing what he wants.

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#87410: Jul 2nd 2018 at 2:52:06 PM

He didn't seem to have a problem with Hawkeye or Thor tapping out at the end of Age of Ultron, so I really doubt it'd be an issue to him if Bruce didn't wanna be an Avenger anymore.

That interpretation doesn't even really ring true with what we see in Civil War, where he gives Cap several chances to come over to his side, and only actually gets into a physical confrontation with him when the situation escalates to the point that Ross is about to order Cap's death.

Edited by comicwriter on Jul 2nd 2018 at 2:56:54 AM

Whowho Since: May, 2012
#87411: Jul 2nd 2018 at 5:25:17 PM

If you gave Thor a list of 117 signing countries, he'd probably say "the throne of Asgard do not recognise these states as sovereign" but like, in dialogue befitting of Thor.

He'd probably up for fighting five super solders in an artic wasteland too. I don't see why he wouldn't be on team Steve.

On another note, I really don't think the Accords allow governments to order Avengers to do anything other than stand down. At no point does anyone follow any of Thunderbolt's orders. Rhodey get a court martial, but he's literally US millitary.

So yeah I'm going with the idea that Bruce would sign and then quit. If only to stop the Abomination ever being deployed to other countries under the Avengers.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#87412: Jul 3rd 2018 at 11:52:31 AM

Game Theory on the physics of Ant-Man as Giant-Man. It's basically just a lesson on mathematics and the square-cube law, no absurd extrapolations here. He does reach some interesting conclusions, like that Scott's legs, at least, would remain unbroken even at his trailer-stated max height of 65 feet.

Discar Since: Jun, 2009
#87413: Jul 3rd 2018 at 12:09:10 PM

The demonstrated physics of Pym Particles in the movies run directly counter to Pym's explanation, to the point that I'm pretty sure he has no idea how they work and is talking out of his ass. The thing about weight remaining the same (and thus strength of a punch remaining the same) is demonstrably more complicated than that, since people can ride around on ants without crushing them.

From what I understand, the comics were even worse.

Writing a post-post apocalypse LitRPG on RR. Also fanfic stuff.
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#87414: Jul 3rd 2018 at 12:20:21 PM

Yeah, it's best to just ignore Pym's explanation, since you can ride on ants while small and you don't float like a balloon as a giant. Especially since he says it's making the distance between atoms smaller when Scott literally shrinks smaller than atoms at one point. Pym Particles make you small or big, no further explanation needed.

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#87415: Jul 3rd 2018 at 12:39:23 PM

wild mass guessThe Pym Particle is actually a reverse-engineered Reality Stone.wild mass guess

AU where Thanos saves resources by shrinking everybody.

Edited by Tuckerscreator on Jul 3rd 2018 at 12:41:15 PM

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#87416: Jul 3rd 2018 at 12:43:45 PM

The concept of shrinking is one of those things that's just physically impossible so there's no real technobabble that can satisfactorily justify it.

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#87417: Jul 3rd 2018 at 1:50:05 PM

Shrinking smaller than atoms by reducing the gaps between atoms is at least somewhat sensible despite how it sounds; black holes do that by exerting so much gravitational force that the Pauli Exclusion Principle and laws preventing particles from occupying the same space get overpowered, crumpled up, and tossed aside like yesterday's newspaper.

Atoms can be squeezed into points smaller than atoms with enough force, though how the Pym Particle achieves that is anybody's guess.

Edited by Anomalocaris20 on Jul 3rd 2018 at 5:11:58 AM

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#87418: Jul 3rd 2018 at 2:19:51 PM

Yeah, but then Scott would become a black hole.

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#87419: Jul 3rd 2018 at 2:26:01 PM

I remember there being a comprehensive chart or something someone made comparing various powers in superhero comics on a scale of size manipulation and density manipulation floating around online, with Ant-Man being a combination of both.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#87420: Jul 3rd 2018 at 2:29:09 PM

If you want an example of a Marvel character whose powers actually work somewhat like how Hank described, look no further than Jack Power, the second youngest member of the Power Pack. If the Power Pack movie pans out, he might even show up. His powers aren't so much shrinking and growing as they are control over his own density. His smallest size is 8 inches tall, and he's only like 8 years old so he's not super heavy even at his densest, though he is very durable and strong. He can't quite grow so much as expand his molecules into a living cloud, though that allows him to fly around as a gas.

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#87421: Jul 3rd 2018 at 2:43:31 PM

[up][up][up]Technically, in the sense of him being an ever-collapsing singularity, yes. That doesn't mean he'd suck in everything around him, though, if that's what you're getting at; he'd be limit-approaching-infinitely dense but he wouldn't have the incredible mass and gravity associated with black holes.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#87422: Jul 3rd 2018 at 5:27:01 PM

Not going to lie, Scott using Pym Particles creatively to become a black hole would be awesome.

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#87423: Jul 3rd 2018 at 9:05:23 PM

*Hawkeye weeps in the corner*

Edited by comicwriter on Jul 3rd 2018 at 9:05:09 AM

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#87424: Jul 3rd 2018 at 9:16:38 PM

Hawkeyes saves the damn universe.

That's what going to happen.

One Strip! One Strip!
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#87425: Jul 3rd 2018 at 9:42:38 PM

Yeah, I'm 100% positive that Hawkeye will deal the final blow in Avengers 4, and I have been positive ever since he was deconfirmed for Infinity War.


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