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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

SonOfSharknado Love is Love is Love Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#86902: May 31st 2018 at 9:12:21 PM

Cap and Bucky.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
SonOfSharknado Love is Love is Love Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#86904: Jun 1st 2018 at 12:53:41 AM

Damn...how could I forget Yondu and Rocket vs the Ravegers? Honestly, that one HAS to be on a bet fight/action scene list.

And Yondu's sacrifice with the funeral after it belong on the list of the best endings/climaxes. Just...wow....

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#86905: Jun 1st 2018 at 6:13:03 AM

Since we are currently talking about action scenes:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3p-lyt78cyA

And interesting video about the DC action scenes, but it uses a lot of the Marvel action scenes for reference.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#86906: Jun 1st 2018 at 7:00:20 AM

Sorry for the slightly off-topic rant, but a bit in that video (the part where it compares mid-battle dialogue) made me realize something about why DCCU Superman really doesn't work. He doesn't talk. Looking back at all the best portrayals of Superman, he's always supposed to be talking. Not like Spider-Man, who makes fun of his opponents to throw them off their game, Superman's constant talking is different.

Superman is always supposed to be telling people that it's okay, he's here now, they're safe. He's supposed to be always trying to de-escalate the situation by trying to talk the villain down and convince them to stop fighting. Whenever he saves Lois, he always engages in light banter/flirting with her to help her calm down. He's not an infallible and almighty beacon of hope and justice, but he very deliberately presents himself as such while saving people in order to help them feel safe. There's a reason what is commonly cited as one of the best Superman moments ever is when he talked a teenage girl out of committing suicide.

To tie it back into the MCU, I've noticed that Tony does this pretty frequently. From the scene in Iron Man 3 where he saves a bunch of people by talking to them and telling them to hold hands in a circle so he can slow their fall (super great and underrated scene, by the way) to when he stops to make sure that an old lady is okay in Infinity War by telling other people to help her. He doesn't do it constantly, but he does it more than Superman in the DCCU does.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#86907: Jun 1st 2018 at 7:45:48 AM

[up] You are right...we need to put the freefall scene on the list of best superhero movie action scenes. It's awesome!

Rytex Your Friend on the Other Side from Here, There, Everywhere (Ancient one) Relationship Status: Married to the music
Your Friend on the Other Side
#86908: Jun 1st 2018 at 8:11:02 AM

I'm still miffed neither Tony nor Stephen told one another "No shit, Sherlock."

Best action scene, I'd have to say Tony vs. the Caps was the best. All that build up for that good of a payoff.

The powerful play goes on, and you may contribute a verse.
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#86909: Jun 1st 2018 at 8:11:43 AM

To tie it back into the MCU, I've noticed that Tony does this pretty frequently. From the scene in Iron Man 3 where he saves a bunch of people by talking to them and telling them to hold hands in a circle so he can slow their fall (super great and underrated scene, by the way) to when he stops to make sure that an old lady is okay in Infinity War by telling other people to help her. He doesn't do it constantly, but he does it more than Superman in the DCCU does.

That's actually part of why he's my favorite hero. Tony set out to make himself, like, the ultimate peacekeeping authority on the planet Earth. His Mission Statement is, "I have successfully privatized world peace." That's a hell of an egotistic thing to say. He's functionally declared that there should be an Planet Earth's Top Cop job position and nominated himself for the position.

That's a really easy character to make into the villain of the piece. It's the kind of character who would normally be written as focused around the respect and the power and the authority.

But Tony walks the walk. His ambitions are lofty, self-aggrandizing, and grandiose, but they're also sincere. He's legitimately passionate about helping people and saving lives.

He's sarcastic, egocentric, and throws his weight around like he's The Boss even when he's talking to legitimate authority figures and alien gods. So it's easy to mistake him as someone who doesn't really care about other people and is just in it for the glory. But if anything, he has the opposite issue; Tony cares too much. Where he fumbles, he does so because he's trying to find a perfect solution to bring the amount of harm caused to his fellow man down to zero. He's emotionally-driven by the desire to keep people safe, and it makes him prone to wild irrationality.

That's why I like the guy so much. He wears a crown that he forged for himself to fill a position of authority that he made up and nobody asked for in the first place, but he genuinely reveres and respects the responsibility that come with it. There is no reason why he has to be here. Any time he wants, he could just go home to his beautiful estate, billions of dollars, and hot girlfriend and say that world peace is someone else's problem. It's not his job. But he does it anyway because he has the ability to do it, and because he cares so much about everyone.

When you boil it down, is that not the distilled essence of what being a superhero even is?

edited 1st Jun '18 8:12:10 AM by TobiasDrake

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Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#86911: Jun 1st 2018 at 8:22:16 AM

With great power and ridiculous wealth must also come great and ridiculous responsibility

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#86912: Jun 1st 2018 at 8:38:16 AM

Wow...the meeting was so secret, James Gunn posted on twitter that it was happening. Really stealthy there.

It's one of the usual non-news. Those directors have to meet once in a while, for various reasons. We already knew that the Russo brothers worked with James Gunn on the Guardians related scenes in Infinity War, and I bet that Coogler had some input regarding the world of Wakanda.

And yes, it is entirely possible that they are discussing Phase 4 now. But we will learn their plans soon enough. And with that I mean next year AFTER Avengers 4 had its run in theatres.

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#86914: Jun 1st 2018 at 10:11:54 AM

Who among the directors and producers and such of Marvel studios could lift Mjolnir?

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#86916: Jun 1st 2018 at 10:25:37 AM

That definitely looks like evaluating and maybe even forging brand new plans for The Verse going forward.

I’ve suspected that T’Challa is going to be he “Iron Man” of the next few phases, that is the face character around which a lot of the subsequent media centers around, and the Russo’s might end up the premiere team up writers / directors of the MCU, so all of her being together is very interesting.

Granted, they could just be having the worlds best pizza.

It honestly hadn’t occurred to me that getting the Four back might make an interesting connection back to Black Panther. He did start out as a Four character, after all: it’d be neat if they returned the favor and have he Four first referenced in one of his movies.

Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#86917: Jun 1st 2018 at 10:42:10 AM

Rather then making a Fantastic four movie they could try making a film about individuals members like Richards Reeds and then lead into him forming fantastic four,just an idea

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Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#86918: Jun 1st 2018 at 11:01:17 AM

Would be cool if it was in relation to that "girlsquad" movie idea starring Valkyrie, Gamora, Scarlet Witch, Black Widow, Captain Marvel, and let's say Shuri or Okoye.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#86919: Jun 1st 2018 at 11:25:16 AM

A Fantastic Four movie is almost certainly a bad idea. The characters just aren't that interesting as a super-team.

Individually, they tend to be fascinating. Reed Richards, Sue Storm, Johnny Blaze, and Ben Grimm are all great characters with fun relationships and dynamics within the greater Marvel Universe. They even have solid relationships with each other. But there's just something about them getting together to fight giant time-traveling mole monsters from Dimension X-756 or whatever that tends to fall a little flat.

They're just much more interesting as supporting characters called into other people's stories than they are when they're fighting crime. This isn't a Guardians of the Galaxy situation where the premise is too weird or out there so you don't think a film could work. It's not that the premise of the Fantastic Four is strange. It's that it's just boring.

Nowhere is this better exemplified than the character of Doom. Outside of the Fantastic Four, Doom is fascinating. He's what would happen if Tony Stark and Doctor Strange had a lovechild. He's a brilliant scientist, a revolutionary engineer, and a master sorcerer. He has an open mind for anything and everything that can be learned and is constantly pushing the envelope on how science, magic, and whatever else is out there can be merged.

Doom is one of the scariest people in the Marvel Universe, because he has no reservations about the power he seeks to wield. Thoroughly convinced that he and he alone knows how to engineer a brighter future for the universe, Doom will stop at nothing to achieve it. Whether that's seeking the Infinity Gems, stealing power from Galactus, usurping Mephisto, whatever it takes. He has an unparalleled drive and the intellect to actually pull it off.

Doom would be a wonderful addition to the MCU.

But when he's a Fantastic Four story, he's just a stupid loser who wants revenge because his face blew up in college and he's never forgiven his ex-roommate for it.

edited 1st Jun '18 11:32:57 AM by TobiasDrake

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PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#86920: Jun 1st 2018 at 11:43:10 AM

I vehemently disagree. While yes, the F4 are at their best when they're supporting characters, there have been tons of adaptations of the F4 in other forms of media that turned out great, such as their various cartoons.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#86921: Jun 1st 2018 at 11:52:48 AM

[up][up] What falls flat about this is that they aren't meant to fight some monsters, nor are they actually a superhero team. They are supposed to be a family of explorers who just happen to have to use their powers once in a while in defence of the earth. And yes, this can work perfectly, think The Incredibles, but with the family members going exploring instead of Superheroing.

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#86922: Jun 1st 2018 at 11:54:08 AM

I think the Fantastic Four would work fine, just not as a super team movie. That's the big mistake Hollywood has always made with the characters: they write them as a bunch of superheros - either bombastic or gritty - with them getting standard hero origin, alongside standard villain origin, leading up so standard fistfight with villain, etc - but that doesn't work because the characters aren't great for it.

It's not what the Fantastic Four are, nor is it what makes them work, so it doesn't work in film.

The four are explorers. They should have exploration movies, cosmic movies, adventure movies. The focus shouldn't necessarily be on them, specifically, but on the journeys they have: in a similar way to how Marvel adapted Guardians as a Space Opera, ideally Fantastic Four should have the tone of Lost In Space or Star Trek (not the Abrams movies), about exploring amazing other worlds or locations and meeting astounding but dangerous creatures, yet and somehow coming out of it alright. Have the Four lost in the Negative Zone, or exploring cosmic reaches we haven't found yet, and so on.

But as long as they keep thinking of the Four as a standard superhero team (and imo a "individual members into superteam movie" bit would only make this worse, not better), Hollywood's just going to keep failing.

I do, however, think should do Doom and the Four separately, with each of their individual appearances constantly referring to one another, and lead up to a confrontation between them in a later movie.

edited 1st Jun '18 11:58:11 AM by KnownUnknown

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#86923: Jun 1st 2018 at 11:57:17 AM

The F4 are supposed to be a cross between interdimensional explorers and wacky family sitcom. Of the two major film adaptations, neither pulled off that mixture quite right. The first one didn't even try at pitching them as explorers and instead focused almost entirely on the sitcom aspect, while the second one at least attempted to do a little exploring but also tried to go the exact opposite route of sitcom.

edited 1st Jun '18 11:59:30 AM by PushoverMediaCritic

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#86924: Jun 1st 2018 at 11:58:59 AM

You could argue that, if you want to get actiony, the way the Hellboy movie handled its storytelling could work: action-packed, but a very strong adventure aspect with every corner being something strange and new, and while having distinctive characterizations the story doesn't rely on character development and is actually kind of light with it.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#86925: Jun 1st 2018 at 12:04:00 PM

[up][up][up] I agree....

And, ironically, if Marvel gets the rights back now, it will be the perfect timing for the Fantastic 4. Now they actually have a giant world to explore. They can make separate movies to introduce the Fantastic 4 (please not an origin story aside from maybe a flashback to whatever accident ended up the reason for their powers this time around), Doctor Doom (featuring the F4 from his perspective) and the Silver Surfer (this time with an origin movie, please, his origin is just too good to pass up), and then work towards them encountering each other and other characters and then ending up in a giant event featuring Galactus setting his sight on earth.

edited 1st Jun '18 12:04:37 PM by Swanpride


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