TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

Marvel Cinematic Universe

Go To

Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

MrSeyker Since: Apr, 2011
#86851: May 29th 2018 at 9:56:41 PM

Honestly, I've never felt any of the Marvel humor undercut any emotional moment. Sometimes jokes fall flat, but never do they take me out of the experience.

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#86852: May 29th 2018 at 10:10:28 PM

Rewatching and comparing Age of Ultron with Civil War, I started to notice that sometimes the "too many quips" issue is not merely the amount of jokes, but the presentation of them.

In Age of Ultron, the characters crack jokes and funny moments happen, but the plot halts for each one and cuts out the music so you can hear Every. Single One. You can almost hear Joss Whedon going "You hear that joke, viewers? Wasn't that funny? How 'bout this next one? And this next one?" So a lot of the threatening atmosphere evaporates because it's constantly drained to make space for humor.

In Civil War, there's actually about the same amount of quips in some of the fights (though not all, the Bucky chase is nearly silent), but the film doesn't stop the plot and cut the music to give them "laughing time". They're just things the characters say because that's the kind of person they are, preserving the in-universe atmosphere rather than creating a "sitcom audience"-type one.

edited 29th May '18 10:11:51 PM by Tuckerscreator

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#86853: May 29th 2018 at 10:14:08 PM

Yep, the way the humor is handled in the Russo-directed films allows it to come off as banter/natural speech most of the time, as opposed to the oft-derided "quips", like the lines Tony is known for even in his own movies.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#86854: May 29th 2018 at 11:46:22 PM

The only joke ever which took me out of a movie or an emotional moment was the Asgard joke...otherwise I think the "too many quips" criticism falls in one category with "no good villains" (not true), "forgettable music" (just did a little quiz on that, and guess what, I am actually able to sort the scores correctly to the movie in question), and whatever else someone found problematic in one movie and then decided that it applies to all Marvel movies.

Also, in general the Russo brothers are pretty light on smart-ass humour, most of the jokes they do is the direct result of characters interacting with each other.

edited 29th May '18 11:47:17 PM by Swanpride

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#86855: May 29th 2018 at 11:52:52 PM

Honestly, I watched Ragnarok ready to cringe at Korg's final joke as Asgard falls, but it didn't really do that for me. I found it actually pretty sad. I didn't read it as a joke, I read it as a sad moment. It felt more like Korg being sorry he got the Asgardian's hopes up and like a poignant moment solidifying that "yeah, Asgard's really gone for realsies".

edited 29th May '18 11:53:27 PM by PushoverMediaCritic

AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#86856: May 29th 2018 at 11:53:44 PM

You can almost hear Joss Whedon going "You hear that joke, viewers? Wasn't that funny? How 'bout this next one? And this next one?"

I mean me personally, I just get a giant headache like he's beating my skull with a metal spike, but I've heard that's the natural reaction one has to Joss Whedon.

[up]

Eh...that one for me didn't fully land but I feel like Ragnarok's overall reputation of "having too many jokes" is utter nonsense. I rewatched it a while back and I kept thinking to myself "How are there too many jokes? This shit is breathing perfectly" until around the very end. Somewhere around when Banner jumped out of the ship.

edited 29th May '18 11:54:48 PM by AdricDePsycho

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#86857: May 29th 2018 at 11:55:18 PM

I still don't understand the problem with that joke, myself. I thought it was pretty funny.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#86858: May 30th 2018 at 12:05:09 AM

It is less that Ragnarök has too many jokes, but that it doesn't allot enough time for more emotional scenes. Thor loses his father and all of his closest friends in this movie and there is no time whatsoever made for him to grief about the fact. I had to wait until Infinity War to finally get the emotional moment I wanted.

AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#86859: May 30th 2018 at 12:07:52 AM

That's not true. The movie leaves quite a bit of room to breathe, especially with Odin's death.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#86860: May 30th 2018 at 2:26:15 AM

[up] Not for me. I would have loved to see Thor and Loki share a moment before Hela turns up. I got the feeling that every time I got emotional, the movie did something to distract me. Luckily it at least had the elevator scene.

Galadriel Since: Feb, 2015
#86861: May 30th 2018 at 4:02:51 AM

I found the overall comic tone of the movie clashed with the emotional weight the events (like Odin's death) should have had, and agree with the criticism that it didn't have enough time to breathe.

Ant-Man had a different but related problem, where the numerous scenes lampshading how silly it was and basically saying "don't take thus seriously" removed any possible tension, with the result that I found it outright boring.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#86862: May 30th 2018 at 5:20:13 AM

Ant-man had more a problem with two clashing visions than necessarily tone. This was after all supposed to be a smaller movie, and I really appreciated it. And it did make time to explore the relationships between the characters.

My favourite part is to this day that they portrayed Paxton as good stepfather and husband, who had good reasons to dislike Scott and was ready to welcome him at his table eventually.

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#86863: May 30th 2018 at 7:10:47 AM

Thor and Loki did have their moment to reflect upon Odin’s death (their encounter in the cell) but it comes quite a while afterward not as consequence of the comedy, but rather because so many plot events happened in a very short amount of time.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#86864: May 30th 2018 at 7:29:10 AM

It is less that Ragnarök has too many jokes, but that it doesn't allot enough time for more emotional scenes. Thor loses his father and all of his closest friends in this movie and there is no time whatsoever made for him to grief about the fact. I had to wait until Infinity War to finally get the emotional moment I wanted.

I'd call that more a product of Ragnarok being two movies stapled to each other and, consequentially, not having a lot of time to really develop any given plot beat.

The film uses a lot of its comedy to convey ideas and develop characterization, so if you took them out, you'd have to replace them with something or you'd be left with a garbled mess. So the idea that the jokes were too time-consuming or whatever doesn't really land with me.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#86865: May 30th 2018 at 8:13:27 AM

[up] It's not about time consuming, it is about timing. Take the "no foundation" joke out and you have an emotional moment. Give Thor and Loki a moment before Hela turn up (and I am just talking about a look they share or some gesture), and it will cost you less than a minute.

It is just obvious that Waititi really wanted to make the Planet Hulk movie, but had little interest in Ragnarök...and that's what the movie was sold on initially.

Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#86866: May 30th 2018 at 8:18:17 AM

I actually thought early on with the arena that Thor was going to end up Helena in the arena when she invades the planet,which is kinda predictable so I think it's better she stayed put,even if meant there was no connection between the two

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#86867: May 30th 2018 at 8:28:17 AM

Something that could have been done would be to make Sakaar a product of Asgard's imperialism somehow

Another hidden sin of Odin and what the universe might look like under Hela

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#86868: May 30th 2018 at 8:29:25 AM

Give Thor and Loki a moment before Hela turn up (and I am just talking about a look they share or some gesture), and it will cost you less than a minute.

They did. They literally did this.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#86869: May 30th 2018 at 9:31:59 AM

My feeling on Ragnorak was that I liked it quite a bit, but my most consistent, positive feelings were after Thor and the others team up (which I know is pretty late in the movie). I liked Korg of course though.

One thing that kind of rubbed me the wrong way was the seemingly comedic tone of Hela's massacring/conquest of Asgard, including killing the Warriors Three. I know that Crosses the Line Twice is obviously a trope and that seems to be what the movie was going for, but I'm not sure if that was the right tone to use, and I wasn't completely sure how the movie wanted the audience to feel in that scene. To a lesser extent, I had the same feeling when Valkyrie kills all those guys in the trash heap, although in that case, since she's one of the protagonists, it made me think of Comedic Sociopathy in The Good, the Bad and the Ugly.

Also, wasn't sure I liked how after his heroic speech, when he throws something to smash the window to escape, it ricochets and hits him in the face, because that was his Let's Get Dangerous! moment, and the gag undermines that and the emotion of the scene. Which granted, is presumably the point of the joke.

On a different topic, can someone explain the B.A.R.F. thing to me? I did watch Civil War but honestly I don't remember where it came up and I'm also confused about what is speculated to be its importance in Avengers 4 (spoilers obviously). Specifically, posts in the thread reminded me that it was referenced as a way of dealing with traumatic memories by replaying and/or altering them, but I don't see what connection that has to the speculated time travel shenanigans.

edited 30th May '18 9:32:20 AM by Hodor2

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#86870: May 30th 2018 at 10:06:04 AM

I think that it is a good thing that nobody really cared about the warriors three and that Sif was off planet.

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#86871: May 30th 2018 at 11:01:54 AM

I don't really derive anything from attempted emotional scenes, so I don't really care when they get "ruined" by a joke. That just makes the joke funnier to me.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#86872: May 30th 2018 at 12:29:00 PM

BARF was Tony reliving the day his parents left before they died with the magic of holograms in front of an entire college to exposit that Tony loves his mom, didn't care for his dad much, and their death still affects him.

windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#86873: May 31st 2018 at 4:13:48 AM

Apparently, the ending for Infinity War was initially going to be held off until Avengers 4.

https://io9.gizmodo.com/avengers-infinity-wars-shocking-climax-was-almost-held-1826418517

edited 31st May '18 4:20:29 AM by windleopard

Soble Since: Dec, 2013
#86874: May 31st 2018 at 2:50:48 PM

I'm surprised Strange vs Dormmamu didn't make it, but I'm happy with what they picked for #1.

I'M MR. MEESEEKS, LOOK AT ME!
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#86875: May 31st 2018 at 3:13:56 PM

Most likely they didn't consider it a fight...and it kind of isn't. Still one of the most creative if not the most creative climax ever for a Superhero movie.

Anyway, not my kind of list....I kind of get the impression that they were a little bit too concerned to spread the love instead of just giving the MCU its due. I mean, just consider how many great fights didn't make the list: Cap's elevator scene, the break out scene in Got G, the airport battle (which only gets a honorable mention...I mean, really?), the briefcase fight, the freaking Bifrost fight and that's only of the top of my mind and not mentioning Infinity war.

Also the number one was so predictable. Not that I don't like the scene, but what actually makes the scene so memorable is not necessarily the action, it is what happens directly after.


Total posts: 186,763
Top