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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#86826: May 28th 2018 at 10:24:46 PM

What were the Winter Soldier's handlers on when they chose those codewords? Bath salts? Lithium?

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
Mizerous Pet Owner from Hell Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: Brewing the love potion
Pet Owner
#86827: May 28th 2018 at 10:27:54 PM

Both? At least it's not the Earth King welcomes you to Lake Laogai.

Just Makima.
Discar Since: Jun, 2009
#86828: May 29th 2018 at 12:27:07 AM

The code words are actually realistic: Completely random words that no one would ever accidentally say outside the exact context of trying to control a brainwashed soldier. None of that crap from The Manchurian Candidate where the soldier gets activated by a casual conversation.

Writing a post-post apocalypse LitRPG on RR. Also fanfic stuff.
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#86829: May 29th 2018 at 12:42:08 AM

I kind of want to see the one in a billion situation where someone or someones somehow end up saying Bucky's codewords accidentally.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#86830: May 29th 2018 at 12:43:47 AM

I'll go with someone gets so mad they start yelling gibberish & that gibbersh coincidently is Bucky's trigger code. tongue

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Mizerous Pet Owner from Hell Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: Brewing the love potion
Pet Owner
#86831: May 29th 2018 at 12:46:07 AM

They would have control over a spy-assassin so it might not be so bad. They just need to speak Russian otherwise it won't work.

Benign....Homecoming...One...Freightcat...

Just Makima.
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#86832: May 29th 2018 at 1:20:28 AM

Homecoming being one of the words was so jarring that it took me out of the film for a couple seconds while I processed that yes, they did just do a shout-out to the upcoming Spider-Man film for no reason.

MedusaStone Since: Jan, 2015
#86833: May 29th 2018 at 1:52:38 AM

It just occurred to me that now not only will we probably never know whether the trigger words had significance to Bucky (the theory I saw most often was that each word was tied to a memory) we'll also never know if they went all in and included "Sputnik" (the word in the comics that was used to shut him down).

And speaking of things we'll never know: what about Tony's B.A.R.F. thing? They went out of their way to show it to us in Civil War, and then it apparently never comes up again. The genera consensus seemed to be it would be the key to curing Bucky's triggers, but Shuri did that in Black Panther, and it was so easy for her they didn't bother to mention how she did it. So, why even bring it up? Did it only exist to show us Tony's relationship with his mother? Although I did think of one really sadistic use, if Marvel wanted to permanently break the hearts of the entire fanbase. Avengers 4 happens, and they manage to get it together one last time and kill Thanos and fix what he did... and then it all fizzles out and disappears, and we find out that the whole movie was really Tony using the B.A.R.F. obsessively to 'create' a better outcome because in reality all their efforts were for naught. The end of Infinity War was indeed the end; this is the new normal and there is no way to fix it. Hence the former Iron Man slowly driving himself insane with his own wish fulfillment machine, while Rhodes worries and wonders how long it'll be before he has to stop a suicide attempt.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#86834: May 29th 2018 at 2:05:42 AM

[up]Spoilers for Avengers 4: The Russos have confirmed that B.A.R.F. will be important.

edited 29th May '18 2:06:09 AM by PushoverMediaCritic

Galadriel Since: Feb, 2015
#86835: May 29th 2018 at 3:09:41 AM

[up] Interesting. It could just be that Tony uses it obsessively to avoid dealing with what's happened, but I don't think that will be its main significance. I conclude that they're going to use it on Thanos.

edited 29th May '18 3:13:56 AM by Galadriel

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#86836: May 29th 2018 at 6:30:31 AM

BARF was an attempt to show not tell how messed up Tony is about his parents deaths and then used to illustrate his overall emotional state coming into Civil War when right after showing it off he learns that Pepper ditched and then he's accosted by grief mom

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#86837: May 29th 2018 at 7:37:59 AM

[up]Granted the scene was kinda jarring in itself, since it consist in tony showing a bunch of strange a painfull memory of is childhood....

really?.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#86838: May 29th 2018 at 7:47:15 AM

Since when is it out of character for Tony to make his emotional problems everyone else's problems?

It's his signature move

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#86839: May 29th 2018 at 11:39:50 AM

The code words are actually realistic: Completely random words that no one would ever accidentally say outside the exact context of trying to control a brainwashed soldier. None of that crap from The Manchurian Candidate where the soldier gets activated by a casual conversation.

There are also a bunch of them and they're so arbitrary that it'd be really difficult to actually remember the activation sequence unless you're reading it directly off the codebook. Which makes it easier to control who can and cannot trigger the Winter Soldier based on simply by controlling who has access to the codebook.

Not perfectly, mind you. But easier.

So, yeah. Good on them. They gave the Winter Soldier a really complex activation phrase that's hard to leak or accidentally trigger, and in return, the Winter Soldier program worked out perfectly with zero flubs or errors for decades.

It's easy to forget 'cause we only get to see the last couple days before everything went to pot. But the fact that Hydra was able to keep both his and their existence secret for so long speaks wonders for the effectiveness of their espionage methods. They demonstrably knew what they were doing.

It just occurred to me that now not only will we probably never know whether the trigger words had significance to Bucky (the theory I saw most often was that each word was tied to a memory) we'll also never know if they went all in and included "Sputnik" (the word in the comics that was used to shut him down).

I mean.

Tying each word to a memory would be an odd choice if you were regularly wiping his memory because you didn't want him remembering those things.

edited 29th May '18 11:41:36 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#86840: May 29th 2018 at 1:07:22 PM

Unless the words are designed to make him repress the memories out of fear/negative connections.

But honestly, this is stuff for fanfic writers. Wo G is that the words were randomly chosen.

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#86841: May 29th 2018 at 2:25:36 PM

It's fun to speculate but I think the Russos confirmed the words are not meant to have any significance at all, including "homecoming" which was an odd but genuine coincidence.

I was hoping that BARF would come back in the context of being used to fix Bucky as a sign of change or moving on from Tony ("Sorry for trying to kill you even though it wasn't really your fault but those HYDRA assholes, to make up for it I'll try to give you some peace of mind"), but Shuri took care of it already (I assume it's safe to talk about Black Panther spoilers now?). I mean they could still use it as a plot point in the future since he's had such a long life and witnessed a lot throughout it, but certainly not in the near sense.

edited 29th May '18 2:32:19 PM by AlleyOop

Mizerous Pet Owner from Hell Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: Brewing the love potion
Pet Owner
#86842: May 29th 2018 at 2:34:11 PM

[up] This game needs a sequel. ;_;

Just Makima.
unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#86843: May 29th 2018 at 2:43:27 PM

"Since when is it out of character for Tony to make his emotional problems everyone else's problems? It's his signature move "

Sure but revealing those memories is not, Tony is controling as hell but at the same time, dude is as close as is armor.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
Mizerous Pet Owner from Hell Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: Brewing the love potion
Pet Owner
#86844: May 29th 2018 at 3:36:55 PM

"I don't care. He killed my Mom."

Just Makima.
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#86845: May 29th 2018 at 3:39:14 PM

In regards to B.A.R.F. my theory’s that Tony uses it to analyze the fight with Thanos and look for a clue Strange might have left him about what to do next. But instead he gets distracted by all he loss and pain, and has to be consoled through it.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#86846: May 29th 2018 at 3:40:45 PM

[up][up][up] He was showing off tech & he wanted to show how good it was.

He was in an emotional state after things so he figured it was perfect.

There's nothing wrong with that moment.

edited 29th May '18 3:47:01 PM by slimcoder

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#86847: May 29th 2018 at 4:31:58 PM

This is also the man who couldn't keep secret about being Iron Man for ten minutes

And yeah much of his emotional arc in Iron Mens 2+3 are about him not telling people about his feelings but he learned that it's ok to make his problems someone else's problems

Specifically Bruce

But without a Bruce, an MIT class looks a lot like him

What with the smarts and all

Oh god he misses his Bruce so much

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#86848: May 29th 2018 at 5:56:14 PM

I did think that bit in Infinity War where they hugged was really sweet. Their scenes together in the first Avengers were among the more heartwarming moments and a big part of what really made me like Bruce as a character, besides Ruffalo's great performance.

GAP Formerly G.G. from Who Knows? Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: In love with love
Formerly G.G.
#86849: May 29th 2018 at 7:44:23 PM

I found a video that helps explain the overuse of Bathos in Marvel films. I don;t really hate the humor and Bathos per say but sometimes it can be really annoying when it undercuts a lot of the emotions in the films.

"Mai waifu."
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#86850: May 29th 2018 at 8:22:57 PM

I actually liked that scene from Dr. Strange, because it was sweet and cute how much the Cloak had gotten fond of Stephen in such a short time period. It was a subversion of the typical badass suit up scene, but I found it more heartwarming than humorous because it was a subversion that addressed the elephant in the room that would've been there if it had been played entirely serious, which was that the suit itself is sentient and might have its own feelings on the matter.

Also, Wonder Woman is certainly more serious, but there is bathos in the film, mostly coming from and towards the supporting cast. Also, the scene at the end where she goes on a rampage and starts killing people and changes her mind like half a minute later is pretty dumb.


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