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Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM
Huh. I'd have to watch Okja myself, but that might be one of the reasons Jake's being eyed for Mysterio. Mysterio's supposed to be an over-the-top theatrical dude, right?
That's...actually got me thinking: what if the Venom movie turns out good? Will it increase the likelihood of seeing Venom in the MCU proper? I can't stop thinking about having a hypothetical Maximum Carnage movie with Tom Holland!Spidey and Tom Hardy!Venom...
Dude. Don't do that to me. Don't get my hopes up for a "Spider-Man" movie that's as much a Spider-Man film as Civil War was a Captain America film, featuring the Avengers duking it out with Carnage and his twisted murder-family.
edited 21st May '18 12:16:13 PM by TobiasDrake
My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.If they bring in Venom, then I'd really rather they take the proper time and effort to set it up well. The rivalry between Spider-Man and Venom isn't nearly as interesting if the latter is just made up of two assholes Peter has never met before.
edited 21st May '18 12:19:47 PM by LordVatek
This song needs more love....setting aside the Venom film coming out, the two are not mutually exclusive. In fact, they're sequential. Venom leads directly into Carnage.
I've always said that my perfect Venom setup would be a trilogy structure. The first film would feature Spider-Man getting the symbiote and using it to battle some villain or another. The symbiote would not be the focus, but would be something that happens and helps Spider-Man win the day in a completely different plot.
Stinger: The reveal that the symbiote is living organism.
The second film would feature Spider-Man discovering the truth of the symbiote for control of his own body, culminating in its bonding with Eddie Brock and their subsequent throwdown. This movie is about Venom. Ending in the symbiote being forcibly separated from Eddie and him being sent to prison.
Stinger: Eddie sharing a cell with Cletus Kasady.
Then the third film would have the return of Venom, the birth of Carnage, and Spider-Man and Venom having to work together to combat this greater menace.
My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.Imo Carnage was just made to have an "evil-er Venom" after Marvel decided to turn him into an antihero, and he's probably too close to the Heath Ledger Joker for most of the general audience; he hasn't really evolved past that general personality beyond the AXIS event.
Yeah, basically that's what I meant. AXIS only evolved him because it it "inverted" his moral compass, so now he wants to do good but he's still a violent sociopath. And that development was pretty much tossed aside after the event ended.
edited 21st May '18 12:40:48 PM by Aleistar
He's not really meant to evolve. As noted, he's more "Marvel's Joker" than "Evil-er Venom". He doesn't even "Venom" right, necessarily; Venom uses his symbiote mostly to ape Spider-Man's powerset, but Carnage is wildly inventive and imaginative with his own, constantly testing its limits and constantly coming up with zany new ways to murder tons of people with it.
They're very different archetypes. The biggest draw of Carnage is similar to the Joker's draw; he pushes Spider-Man to his breaking point, both physically and philosophically. In addition to being monstrous enough to challenge Spider-Man's moral code, he's also formidable enough that Spider-Man usually can't actually win a fight with him unless he has outside assistance, whether that's Venom, another superhero, or a clone of himself.
Imagine if the Joker was such a deadly and capable fighter that Batman regularly lost their fights. It adds a whole new layer to the, "Should Batman kill the Joker?" question when you have to frantically wonder if, by taking him in alive, this rare opportunity to end his threat might never happen again. Indeed, Spider-Man has been pushed to the point of trying to employ lethal force against Carnage a couple of times out of sheer fear of what he might do if he isn't brought down by whatever means necessary, though he usually bails out of it.
That's a big part of Carnage's pull. It's really easy to hold to a high moral code when it's never truly challenged. Batman can object to killing villains because he's so powerful compared to his rogues that it's not really necessary, especially the one that matters most in the context of the question. But it's a much harder moral question to ask, "Is it okay to break your moral code and kill this person, if that is the only possible way you can think of to stop him?"
That's Carnage: the villain that Spider-Man is so petrified of that he stops quipping and earnestly contemplates the merits of killing.
edited 21st May '18 12:43:22 PM by TobiasDrake
My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.I should also note that Venom's role in all that is basically to be the voice of temptation, adding to Spider-Man's moral quandary. He's the guy who Spidey cannot win without, but who's standing there going, "We have to kill him. We literally have to kill him. It's the only possible way to win this."
My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Huh. All this time I just thought Carnage was a Boring 90's villain, but you've certainly put him into a different light.
Thanks Tobias!
Huh. That is most of the Six. All we need now is Doc Ock and Electro or Kraven...or whoever else has been part of the group. Their line up is pretty variable.
One Strip! One Strip!One of the reasons I've really wanted Mysterio was because I feel like the original Mysterio plot - with him taking advantage of Spidey's growing popularity to pretend to be him, discredit him while lining his pockets as a fake hero, and complicate Spidey's already conflicted relationship with his own superhero identity - is the absolute perfect step forward for the series.
Mysterio, as a character, takes advantage of the idea that Spider-Man is bringing the sensationalist and "friendly neighborhood" side of superherodom to the in-universe public. With Peter in Homecoming only just learning what kind of responsibility he's trying to embrace, him starting to become accustomed to a world that sees him as a superhero and deal with what that means is a great step forward.
It also works in a post-broken Avengers world, with nobody knowing what to think about those possibly criminal heroes of the past with their grand government and corporate connections, while Mysterio pretends to be an accessible "hero" that caters to the common denominator.
edited 21st May '18 3:25:23 PM by KnownUnknown
I know I acknowledged the logic of them eyeing Gylenhaal, but I'd be lying if I didn't say I was disappointed too...
The villain who became another villain was Montana, who went on to become Shocker.
Speaking of which, I'd kind of like to see the Enforcers in the Homecoming Universe. Like, if they turn up as Prowler's less scrupulous, but also less competent friends or something.
edited 21st May '18 8:35:14 PM by KnownUnknown
First synopsis for Avengers 4:
Suitably ominous.
edited 22nd May '18 5:39:42 PM by comicwriter

For those concerned about Gyllenhaal only playing serious roles, he played a rather glorious
Large Ham antagonist in Okja.