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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#86176: May 5th 2018 at 5:48:53 PM

Lots of people talk about the first Cap film though?

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#86177: May 5th 2018 at 5:50:40 PM

It didn't do gangbusters and it's not going to be on the absolute top lists of anyone, but a lot of people still look relatively fondly on the first Cap film despite its flaws. It's not a particularly bombastic film and most of its strengths are in more subtle areas like the characterization and relationship building, while its weaknesses are in tricky-to-solve issues like the pacing.

edited 5th May '18 6:00:26 PM by AlleyOop

XJTordecai Watch the seventh wave Since: Jun, 2013
Watch the seventh wave
#86178: May 5th 2018 at 5:51:39 PM

I could use something as relatively light as Ant-Man and the Wasp after Infinity War's ungodly soul-crushing ending ;_;

On my wave, passing oooooooon
comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#86179: May 5th 2018 at 5:53:35 PM

[up] Unless it ends with Cassie turning to dust. Joking. Mostly.

[up][up]I think it did a very good job of setting up Steve Rogers as a likable hero the audience could get behind and invest in, which Winter Soldier then ran with spectacularly.

edited 5th May '18 5:54:39 PM by comicwriter

AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#86180: May 5th 2018 at 5:54:39 PM

First Avenger gave us Peggy Carter and the retro 50's pulp atmosphere was great. Really I think that its biggest flaws are its presentation of the Howling Commandos being really weak (they're alright but pretty much minor characters who don't leave a big impression) and Red Skull isn't that great a villain.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
LordVatek Not really a lord of anything Since: Sep, 2014
Not really a lord of anything
#86181: May 5th 2018 at 5:58:40 PM

I'd argue that GotG should count as a solo movie. Sure it's not technically solo in the traditional sense but the Guardians are a package deal and they're treated as such.

edited 5th May '18 5:58:48 PM by LordVatek

This song needs more love.
Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#86182: May 5th 2018 at 6:08:50 PM

Red Skull's one of the better villains since being cackling and 2-dimensional is easier to buy with a Nazi than it is with most of the other people we meet. He also has one of the few thematic uses of "my power is the same as the hero's" which is a plague that even affects good movies in the MCU.

But I'd argue Cap 1, Iron Man 1 and Wonder Woman are better than Black Panther as solo origin movies. I think Black Panther has gotten a little... I hate to use this word, but overrated? Like, it's good don't get me wrong, but you can really feel the MCU formula hampering it.

edited 5th May '18 6:10:47 PM by Sigilbreaker26

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#86183: May 5th 2018 at 6:11:43 PM

My issue with Red Skull is mostly that he isn't cackling or monstrous enough and it makes him feel more generic as a consequence. He gets plenty of ham to him but I don't think it's enough to make him memorable enough for me. Like yeah, he's a Nazi, but I didn't feel like they sold him as being a big enough monster outside of him deciding to destroy Berlin.

Also, I don't count Black Panther as an origin movie. T'Challa already has his origin in Civil War.

edited 5th May '18 6:12:25 PM by AdricDePsycho

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#86184: May 5th 2018 at 6:16:38 PM

Known Unknown talked about this a while back, but the Red Skull in the movie is more like a pulp serial villain than the more overtly cruel and monstrous Skull from the comics, to make him fit more with the general tone of the film, but it does have the effect of making him feel a bit more generic.

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#86186: May 5th 2018 at 6:23:54 PM

Yeah, on review the Red Skull isn't very good. Just "serviceable".

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#86187: May 5th 2018 at 6:32:21 PM

Doctor Strange was a fairly formulaic movie but I enjoyed it simply because Doctor Strange and Dormammu are my favorite Marvel hero and villain respectively.

But more importantly, it gave us what I consider the single greatest climax in the entire MCU:

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#86188: May 5th 2018 at 6:35:16 PM

[up][up][up] I would legit smooch two of those three, maybe if the third had a bit more time to incubate I'd feel the same.

unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#86189: May 5th 2018 at 8:25:14 PM

You know, taking about ragnarok in IW thread made me think something funny: how Stark or Cap talk about Fury keping secrets and being shady an all that when in true Odin retty much beat him in that front:

He kept Loki parantage.

is Imperalist phase for their entire population(I mean that is quite a feat).

He hide Hela existent even when she was with him in that moment.

The tesseract(which means he should know about the gems in some capacity).

Really, Fury got nothing to his guy, Odin was secrety as shit.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#86190: May 5th 2018 at 8:28:12 PM

That’s why they both have eyepatches. The eye socket is full of their secrets.

unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#86191: May 5th 2018 at 8:29:45 PM

....Maybe Fury is actually another of Odin sons and probably Heimdall brother or something like that....is not hard t belive a this point.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#86192: May 5th 2018 at 8:48:12 PM

I have a barely implausible headcanon that Heimdall was one of the few in Asgard that knew about Hela and the blood and golden old days

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#86193: May 5th 2018 at 8:59:03 PM

[up]I kinda looks that away so why not.

Overall I complain a litlte about the whole Odin cover up because it so....lacking in details.

I mean Valquire knows about Hela and by that it means she know about what happen before, also the gigant king seen to know Odin rather well.

is kinda hard to said how much it happen.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#86194: May 5th 2018 at 9:02:11 PM

She fell through a time warp again

She's explicitly the last member of an organization that ceased to exist before Thor was born and his age is 1500 some

Ceased to exist sufficiently long enough that Thor felt proud of himself for supporting Lady Sif becoming a warrior instead of it being a "no shit a woman can be a warrior, idiot"

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#86195: May 5th 2018 at 9:18:34 PM

I mean....how old are asgardian again? I remenber something around 8000 or 9000 years.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#86196: May 5th 2018 at 9:21:29 PM

Really, really old.

Far, far older than humanity.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#86197: May 5th 2018 at 9:26:23 PM

Asgard as a place? Or the average asgardian at all?

Loki suggests that the average lifespan of an Asgardian is about five thousand years

Presumably royals can live far longer.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#86198: May 5th 2018 at 9:26:32 PM

In Thor: The Dark World, Loki makes a comment about how Asgardians are like humans “give or take 5,000 years.”

So Thor’s lifespan is 5,000 years. Ish. Hela looks about the same when imprisoned as when she’s released, so we can guess that Asgardian aging is rapid-slow-rapid.

So, say:

  • From age 0-10 it’s similar to human
  • 10-100 is like being 10-12
  • 100-500 is like being 12-16
  • 500-1,000 is 16-24
  • 1,000-1,500 is like 24-30
  • 1,500-2,000 is 30-35
  • 2,000-3,000 is 35-45
  • 3,000-4,000 is 45-60
  • 4,000-5,000 is 60-80

So let’s say Hela was, oh, 40 in human terms when she got exiled, and it was right before Thor was born. So, Hela would have been exiled 1,500 years ago at the age of 2,500. Making Valkyrie, who looks to be, say, 30, 1,500 years old at the time.

That would make Hela 4,000 years old (but her prison may have had wonky time/aging). Valkyrie would be 3,000 years old (but time passes differently on Sakaar, so she looks Thor’s age).

Odin has a cheat code in the form of the Odinsleep. He’s already at least 3,000-4,000 years old when he exiled Hela, making him 4,500-5,500 years old when he died (or older). His father, Bor, fought the dark elves during the last convergence 5,000 years ago.

So we get a timeline like this...

  • 5,000 years ago: Bor fights dark elves
  • ? years ago: Odin becomes king
  • ?-1,500 years ago: Odin’s great conquest
  • 1,500 years ago: Hela imprisoned, Thor born

edited 5th May '18 9:38:28 PM by wisewillow

unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#86199: May 5th 2018 at 11:10:48 PM

I see, that seen a retty good timeline, while I remaind skeptical of how damn good Odin was covering is track, it seen more that enough.

Anyway, I have a question: We see now two elder of the univeres(the colector and the grandmaster) already, who do you think is going to be the next, and wha actor did you think will show?.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#86200: May 5th 2018 at 11:12:10 PM

Does anyone even care about any Elders of the universe that aren't the Collector, the Grandmaster, Ego (honorary member) or the Champion?

Forever liveblogging the Avengers

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