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Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM
Killmonger: "This country of yours, beautiful and majestic it may be, is kind of fucked up and has some damn problems, specifically with its isolationism. I'm gonna take over and end that by declaring war on the world."
T'Challa: "You're going too far, but the basic gist of what you're saying is right."
And T'Challa's change of heart about Wakandan foreign policy is less about accepting that Killmonger had a point and more about him realizing that previous kings (and his father in particular) weren't right about everything. His objections to Nakia's point about helping the outside world was basically "Wakanda has always stood apart and that's worked pretty well so far". That also goes all the way back to Shuri's comment in the very beginning of the movie (about the gadgets she'd given him) to the effect of "just because it works doesn't mean it can't be improved". Combine those two sentiments and he's more willing to change Wakandan policy, even against all tradition.
Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.I had a very poignant conversation with someone - an activist - after the movie about how that line sums up the tragedy of Killmonger’s character very well: it’s very telling that, when faced with a grand history and on the cusp of the world that just might be able to change, the only image Killmonger are people who died in misery. Not the kings they were, not he freedom fighters they became, but those who were lost to the brutality before it could be overthrown. That’s the only way he’ll allow himself to see the world, and it informs all his actions.
Or in short, the fact that his situation isn’t similar and his actions have far outstripped his sympathies is the entire point of the line, and the character. He’s let himself to be too consumed with hate to see the world in anything other than a hateful way.
It might be a bit of both. There's also his training informing his actions a little (as Ross suggests). I mean, it's entirely possible that even if his kick everyone's ass plan fails and Wakanda gets bombed into oblivion, Killmonger will still be ok with that because this is the country that abandoned him. He wants revenge on everyone after all.
Now, if only we could convince him that Tony Stark is to blame for everything. We'd kill two birds with one stone.
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That's a very good point and a very insightful reading. But I really got the impression from the tone of the movie scene (the music, T'Challa's reaction, how the line is delivered) that we were supposed to feel sad for him in a sort of Magneto way and I really think the movie failed at making him reach that level.
edited 26th Apr '18 9:55:50 AM by Sigilbreaker26
"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"I feel like Killmonger succeeds at being tragic, but not sympathetic. He reminds me of the sweet, gifted kid who grows up to be a brutal gangbanger in a rough neighborhood - he’s both an inexcusable monster and a sad example of wasted potential.
I remember after the movie came out the phrase “I knew a Killmonger growing up” or similar was trending a little among black viewers: it’s a relateable tragedy in the inner city.
Yes, it’s pretty spelled out. T’challa’s first words to Killmonger at the Mound are how he never surrendered the duel or died. Then Okoye urges W’kabi to stay back because the challenge isn’t over... until W’kabi orders a charge and Killmonger states he’s not resuming the challenge, breaking the rules and prompting Okoye to lead the Dora uprising. She never “arbitrarily” broke from Killmonger until it was clear he would not respect the challenge’s decrees.
I mean, we literally saw those spears shoot down planes and rip apart cars, so I dunno how much more evidence of their technological advancement can be shown.
Also super-advanced space civilization Asgard fights with swords and hammers.
...the Jabari being adverse towards technology was stated in every scene of theirs. These prior complaints of “the movie wasn’t clear enough” really don’t hold up well when obvious and repeatedly shown character traits like this get missed.
The latter half of the sentence doesn’t appear to change the question. I did not deliberately ignore it.
edited 26th Apr '18 10:45:27 AM by Tuckerscreator
Jovian's point, which you've ignored note , is that that is the impression given by the movie but that it doesn't match up with the mountain clan, armed with basically medieval weapons, turning the tide against the Wakandan border tribe who are all using super scifi tech.
And if that sci-fi tech is not able to match this middle ages tech level army, it only reinforces one of his other points about how super-assegai and armoured rhinos are signficantly less useful than actual guns and tanks.
edited 26th Apr '18 10:42:17 AM by Sigilbreaker26
"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"Luke Cage is super-fast and super-jumpy too? I guess those come with the territory of super-strength, unless Dr. Burstein's procedure skipped leg day. Also, June 22nd release date is good.
Also:
But he had a spear stuck through his ribs, how was he not the injured party?
edited 26th Apr '18 11:12:15 AM by Anomalocaris20
You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!Moon Knight and goddamn Blade have been waiting their hour for eons.
"All you Fascists bound to lose."So, I have a general issue with the Netflix shows due to the combination of their separation from the MCU, coupled with the overall grittiness. Which makes me not really interested in any characters appearing in them, both because it means that those characters will never be in the MCU and because of it relatedly means they probably won't be involved in their comics' counterparts more "lighthearted" or "fantastical" moments.
I think this particularly an issue with Trish/Patsy, because of how fluffy her great recent series was. And like with Daredevil at least, while he's had some lighter moments, he's pretty gritty in general..
With that said, I would be kind of interested in Moon Knight (although I'd rather see what the MCU would do with him), since he's street level and gritty to begin with. And although I'd also be interested in vampires and that kind of supernatural thing fitting into the MCU, Blade would definitely work in the Netflix 'verse. Lastly, The Hood might be interesting as a Villain Protagonist in the Netflix shows.
I think the grittiness is an overall strength of the netflix shows since it makes for a different type of atmosphere from the films and opens up the possibility to tell different kinds of stories. I get that might make it difficult to tell some of the more whimsical/"fun" stories those characters might be known for however.
edited 26th Apr '18 12:50:23 PM by NativeJovian
Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.They don't intentionally use vibranium tech but the wood they use in their weapons and such have trace bits of vibranium
It was a thing that the vibranium got into local plant life.
Forever liveblogging the AvengersI mean, at that point, I think Killmonger's basically broken the terms of the challenge and has effectively launched a full-blown coup.
Oh God! Natural light!I want Power Pack. I've wanted Power Pack for years. Don't make it Darker and Edgier to match the rest of the Netflix-verse, make it Lighter and Softer, to contrast it. I want the Powers family to hang out with Jessica's boyfriend and his kid and for Jessica Jones to have to team up with these kids who have superpowers while also babysitting them. The Power Pack are at their best when they're teaming up with a much darker and edgier hero who has to restrain their edgier traits and become a Badbutt for the kids' sake.
Those spears are miniaturized cannons & are the Wakandan version of small hand-guns.
There's a reason why Okoye considers guns primitive.
Killmonger had already sicked the army on T'Challa so the duel was null & void anyway.
edited 26th Apr '18 1:05:35 PM by slimcoder
"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."Unless it's something weird like "it's an energy cannon that you have to stab people with", which is just... dumb.
edited 26th Apr '18 1:08:42 PM by NativeJovian
Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.At that point it is more lawful to defend her king by attacking his usurper than it is to futilely try to set up a duel Killmonger has explicitly said he’s not going to do. Plus, T’challa’s pretty far away and there’s a whole army between them. If ordering an army attack on your opponent doesn’t break the laws of dueling, and so justify her retaliation, then nothing does.
edited 26th Apr '18 1:08:11 PM by Tuckerscreator

The very next scene after Shuri complains about the ceremony is the king of the Jabari tribe calling her out at disrespectful.