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Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM
Jupiterian Local
> Killing someone without trial is kind of illegal or some shit, isn't it? I feel like there's an international treaty of some kind about that.
Under normal circumstances killing someone without trial would be unthinkably illgeal,and yeah there are treaties about that kind of that to stop governments killing people in countries not their own
Bucky was a former assassin for Hydra,and the fact that he killed a lot of people while under their control probably made them think twice about putting him any sort of trial,since they probably felt it would be pointless because there's no way you can prove brainwashing,they took the easy option of trying to kill him without any form of the trial
have a listen and have a link to my discord server![]()
Protection under the law isn't typically rescinded just because doing so would be easier and more convenient given the circumstances, and it's certainly difficult to sell as just for that reason. That's one of the reasons things like secret prisoners without trial and death squads are (formally) looked down upon. Granted, everybody does it anyway, but...
edited 25th Apr '18 3:40:52 PM by KnownUnknown
> I feel like you can totally prove Bucky's type of brainwashing.
Sure,but you'd have show the court that Bucky was not in control of his actions and thus was not doing it willing,and then someone has the brought idea to use the code word they used to control him and from there it all goes down from there.
In anycase,they're thinking of the bodycount and the victims like Tony's parents,they have actual evidence of that,they can prove he killed them
have a listen and have a link to my discord serverIn most countries, you aren’t supposed to shoot people to kill without trial. Unfortunately, it does happen. Two notable examples would be drone strikes ordered by the US government, and police shootings of unarmed black men and women in United States. In the first instance, apparently it “doesn’t count” because terrorism; in the second case, it isn’t a kill order so much as crappy cops knowing they’ll get away with it/systemic racism.
In Bucky’s case, they didn’t even check the hazy camera footage for trickery before ordering him executed on sight. Apparently tranquilizers aren’t a thing...?
Tony doesn't want to be an Arms Dealer anymore or make murder weapons.
Mostly because anything the US government makes ends up in the hands of Hydra.
:)
Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.Related to what willow said: we livie in a world where people are routinely shot by the authorities - whether by individual cops, or military drone strikes - for merely existing (and being non-white).
A movie showing governments being willing to use lethal force as the first or only option against a deadly assassin who was the prime suspect in a terrorist attack doesn't really register, in comparison.
I don't think it's right, but it's orders of magnitude less objectionable than what happens on a regular basis in a universe (ours) facing far fewer threats than the MCU does.
If we want to make this about "well, it's nothing compared to real life," then there's the problem that people are often more easily desensitized to major breaches of justice by being taught to accept minor ones. It's easier to accept unnecessary lethal force against "bad guys" in real life when your heroes exercise unnecessary lethal force against bad guys in all the media that you absorb. We do rather live in a time that struggles with the fact that a surprisingly large percentage of people think it's fine to strap on a gun and shoot somebody if they perceive them as threatening and think they need to die, even people who don't actually go out and do so themselves.
But we don't even need to go down that fascinating but lengthy and distracting ethical conversation. To go down another tracl: the MCU government making the shaky moral decision to send kill squads against Bucky isn't less of a negative thing because governments in the real world do worse, it's even more obviously a negative thing when put in the lens of real life, because of that fact. The real life background puts it in context, naturally relating it to cases in real life where such things were also done on shaky ground and allowing the filmmakers to shorthand it as problematic without outright saying so, because the general audience is used to questioning such in their own lives.
edited 25th Apr '18 5:07:12 PM by KnownUnknown
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I'd also add that there is a lot of solid evidence known to the cast that Bucky was brainwashed. And while I don't know if anyone ever got off on this basis, it actually is a thing in common law that you aren't responsible for crimes where you didn't have mens rea (the paradigmatic example is sleep-walking, but brainwashing would probably count too, especially because at various points in the 1800's and 1900's, there was a panic about people being made to commit crimes under hypnotism).
And besides that, there's been plenty of examples of people who were captives of criminals/terrorists and have praised their captors under duress or in some cases have committed crimes themselves (thinking of Patti Hearst and Beau Bergdahl), and I think they've generally been captured/rescued and put on trial.
edited 25th Apr '18 5:03:28 PM by Hodor2
"Are you seriously arguing that it's okay to kill a someone without so much as a trial because they really 99% almost definitely probably did it, and anyway bringing them in alive would be a super pain in the ass? "
Well.....yeah, kinda, there is not prove to anyone but the public that Bucky is still bucky and not the winter soldier, still carrying order for Hydra or any other agent outhere, even Steven dosent have anything else but some gut feeling, not to mention that as far everyone is concern, he just bomb a meeting between word leaders and that killed one of them.
As far Everyone is invold, The Winter soldier is pretty much a high skilled terrorist.
Also and sorry to said this but "pain in the ass" you make it sound like all they have to do is struggle a little and that it. when it true he could KILLED several of them before going down, Bucky is not your ordinary target at all.
"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"Hey remember that time Natasha leaked all of Hydra/Shield’s shit? I’m sure there would’ve been something in there about how Sgt. James Buchanan Barnes is a brainwashed slave, not an assassin or terrorist with free will.
The world tried to murder him because that was the convienient option.
If J. Jonah Jameson published an article the next day saying “German Special Forces Attack Disabled WWII POW” he would’ve been telling the truth exactly as it is.
edited 25th Apr '18 6:20:10 PM by TheAirman
PSN ID: FateSeraph | Switch friendcode: SW-0145-8835-0610 Congratulations! She/TheyThis is Jameson. Of course he would have.
One Strip! One Strip!Depends on if he publishes before or after the airport battle. I wouldn’t be surprised if had a spontaneous orgasm upon hearing the Spider-Menace was involved in that.
edited 25th Apr '18 6:28:15 PM by TheAirman
PSN ID: FateSeraph | Switch friendcode: SW-0145-8835-0610 Congratulations! She/TheyThe marvel universe needs another prominant newspaper guy because having Jameson as principled newspaper guy and also irrational hates spider guy guy makes my head spin
edited 25th Apr '18 8:11:06 PM by Bocaj
Forever liveblogging the AvengersDidn’t comics Jameson actually have a pretty legit reason for distrusting Spider-Man at one point?
I mean, look at him in Homecoming, dude straight assaults an innocent man for attempting to enter his own car.
PSN ID: FateSeraph | Switch friendcode: SW-0145-8835-0610 Congratulations! She/TheyI kinda like the whole complex relationship of the Daily Bugle with truth in journalism. On one hand, Jameson has a irrational hatred for spiderman and pushes that as often as possible, but outside of that he's generally portrayed as a rather reliable and honest journalist. Daredevil stories often feature this best with Phil Ulrich reporter extraordinaire and Jonah Jameson running stories on influential monsters like the Kingpin despite great personal danger in doing so.
"All you Fascists bound to lose."
