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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#85576: Apr 25th 2018 at 1:02:31 PM

[up]Well....Iron man does look like Ferrus manus in personality.....

Yeah I can see it.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#85577: Apr 25th 2018 at 1:02:38 PM

yup

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#85578: Apr 25th 2018 at 1:04:21 PM

[up]Now, being fair here, if there is any primarch tony look more.....is perturabo.

That.....isnt good, at all.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#85579: Apr 25th 2018 at 1:06:27 PM

Tony was giving his weapons to the government, and those ended up in the hands of terrorists (really more Stane's fault than anyone else, but he's dead, so lets blame Tony some more).

He's probably afraid such a thing will happen again. Also note that when he gave Shield Arc Reactor tech, they turned out to be infiltrated by Hydra.

That's also his fault for helping Hydra.cool

One Strip! One Strip!
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#85580: Apr 25th 2018 at 1:08:39 PM

Nearly every person who uses Tony's tech causes disaster.

Sure he's still Tony Stark but its still his tech.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#85582: Apr 25th 2018 at 1:12:16 PM

The Iron Spider suit will be available in the new Spider-Man PS 4 game.

Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#85583: Apr 25th 2018 at 1:13:37 PM

Point made - he gives it to a frikkin teenager but not the US government?

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#85584: Apr 25th 2018 at 1:17:41 PM

That teenager is more responsible than he is...kind of.

At least he tries, and hopefully, he'll have better luck at being responsible than Tony is.

I'd trust Peter over the vast majority of MCU Government.

One Strip! One Strip!
unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#85585: Apr 25th 2018 at 1:18:13 PM

[up][up]And with a damn kill mode, no less.

If anything having vulture having a gruge against Stark was bad thing, why not oscorp?

They cant use it?

edited 25th Apr '18 1:18:56 PM by unknowing

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
NativeJovian Jupiterian Local from Orlando, FL Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Jupiterian Local
#85586: Apr 25th 2018 at 1:47:40 PM

Or rather, he won’t unless it involves admitting a murder his friend Bucky was involved in... tongue
Well that's the interesting thing, no? He's only able to do it by convincing himself that it is the right thing.... and he admits that it was a mistake when he's called out on it. I'm not saying that Steve is perfect, only that he has very rigid ideas about morality and personal responsibility.

What did you think of T’challa in the film? He’s been a little undermentioned, and this film is basically the prequel to his own movie.
He was a dick, but had understandable reasons for it. I would have liked to see someone call him out on his hypocrisy. (The Avengers are a menace whose recklessness and flagrant disregard for national sovereignty got Wakandan citizens killed! Now hold my beer while Wakanda's national superhero murders an American citizen in a European country.) I would have disliked him more had he not gotten his shit together at the end and realized that he was being a dick. Stopping Zemo from killing himself was a nice touch, too.

One thing that's interesting to note is that he may be the only person in the MCU more privileged than Tony Stark. Both are ridiculously wealthy, but Tony's legitimately a supergenius whose "powers" are a direct result of his own work, while T'Challa was born into both his wealth and power and his superhero abilities in the form of an inherited phlebotinum suit. (Thor is also royalty, but unlike T'Challa, had his powers taken away until he proved himself worthy.)

There is nothing reasonable about the raft.
The Raft seemed like a pretty legitimate thing to me — unless you're just going to murder every defeated supervillain in cold blood, you need someplace to put them, and a conventional prison obviously ain't gonna cut it. Would have been nice to see who else was there besides the rogue Avengers, but that goes back to "really long movie, have to cut something." And of course, Cap was able to free all his friends pretty easily by himself, so apparently the Raft is not ridiculous enough, if anything.

That is a good point - regardless of the Avengers own moral standing, that's the fate of the world being kept in the hands of about ten people. Like, why don't they get an equivalent of X-COM in Iron Man suits?
From a Doylist POV, because then the Avengers wouldn't be as cool and special anymore. From a Watsonian POV, it's because giving someone that much power is a huge risk. It's basically nuclear weapons proliferation. Some people have it, and it's not worth the risk of trying to take it from them — but you still take steps to keep other people from getting it, just because the more widespread the power is, the more likely it'll eventually be misused.

Heck, if I was the US I'd just go "emininent domain bitch, hand over the blueprints".
They tried that in Iron Man 2, Tony told them to go piss up a rope and they didn't actually have any way to enforce their order. Also the guy spearheading that effort turned out to work for Hydra. What were you saying about "releasing the tech doesn't mean terrorists will get it"?

edited 25th Apr '18 1:48:49 PM by NativeJovian

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#85587: Apr 25th 2018 at 1:55:00 PM

They tried that in Iron Man 2, Tony told them to go piss up a rope and they didn't actually have any way to enforce their order. Also the guy spearheading that effort turned out to work for Hydra. What were you saying about "releasing the tech doesn't mean terrorists will get it"?

So what you're saying is that because Tony didn't give up his tech, Stern's joined Hydra?

Makes sense to me. Another victim of the Starks.

One Strip! One Strip!
comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#85588: Apr 25th 2018 at 2:01:07 PM

In honor of Infinity War, Honest Trailers finally did an entry for The Incredible Hulk.

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#85589: Apr 25th 2018 at 2:05:45 PM

I wish they established the Raft better beforehand. I think this is the first time it's ever been shown to exist, and there's no context given for it afterwards. It's a ridiculously scifi location in a relatively grounded world with extremely questionable legal jurisdiction.

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#85590: Apr 25th 2018 at 2:08:46 PM

I want to know how they keep Wanda restrained in just a straitjacket when she has telekinesis and mind control.

TheAirman Brightness from The vicinity of an area adjacent to a location Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Historians will say we were good friends.
Brightness
#85591: Apr 25th 2018 at 2:09:27 PM

Oh yeah there’s another thing: The Avengers didn’t have oversight at the start of Civil War because they already tried the “answering to an international committee” thing. Said committee tried to nuke New York. Then Hydra stopped pretending altogether and straight up tried to cull the human population in one fell swoop.

These problems were averted because Fury and Steve took matters into their own hands and said fuck the higher ups.

So Steve doesn’t exactly have bad reasons for not trusting vague groups to call the shots. Not saying he’s entirely right, but he’s got a better argument than Tony trying to shove his personal guilt trip onto everybody else.

edited 25th Apr '18 2:10:44 PM by TheAirman

PSN ID: FateSeraph | Switch friendcode: SW-0145-8835-0610 Congratulations! She/They
unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#85592: Apr 25th 2018 at 2:18:17 PM

[up]Problem is, is reasons boild down to pretty much "I dont like when someone else tell me what to do", is very anti authoritarian and because of that Zemo caught in his trap.

More important, even falcon shot down the argument "this is not hydra, or shield, this is the United nations" to tell them to fuck up is pretty much rejecting all the world power he need oversight.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#85593: Apr 25th 2018 at 2:32:19 PM

I want to know how they keep Wanda restrained in just a straitjacket when she has telekinesis and mind control.

Her powers have never been properly explained, but I think she needs access to her hands. Everytime she uses her telekinesis or mind control, she's shown doing weird things with her fingers.

So I think the implication is she needs her hands to be free for her powers to work. Sorta like how Zatanna at DC is useless if you gag her or make her lose her voice.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#85594: Apr 25th 2018 at 3:01:12 PM

IT wasn't just a straightjacket. She was also wearing some sort of collar.

NativeJovian Jupiterian Local from Orlando, FL Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Jupiterian Local
#85595: Apr 25th 2018 at 3:12:35 PM

Problem is, is reasons boild down to pretty much "I dont like when someone else tell me what to do", is very anti authoritarian and because of that Zemo caught in his trap.
Alternatively, Zemo's plan worked because the UN was willing to order the murder of a criminal suspect without giving them the benefit of due process, forcing Cap to go rogue in order to save the life of an innocent man who was also his best friend. Given that evidence that Bucky was framed turned up within days of the bombing (a remarkably short time as major criminal investigations go, but still too late for Bucky had Cap not intervened), Cap was pretty much objectively in the right here.

She was also wearing some sort of collar.
Yeah, she seemed to be strapped into a whole contraption, the straight jacket and collar just being components of it. My take was that it somehow detected her powers and zapped her if she tried to use them.

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.
unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#85596: Apr 25th 2018 at 3:16:26 PM

"Zemo's plan worked because the UN was willing to order the murder of a criminal suspect without giving them the benefit of due process, forcing Cap to go rogue in order to save the life of an innocent man who was also his best friend. "

A hightly train assain who have kill god-know how many damn people waaaaaay before, you dont take any change with him, and Cap being right is just narrative trickery because he is the hero.

Also, Is clear Zemo was kinda expecting the body to be found....after all, why someone like him leave in hotel room?.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#85597: Apr 25th 2018 at 3:21:54 PM

"Narrative trickery"........

What the fuck is this horseshit?

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
NativeJovian Jupiterian Local from Orlando, FL Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Jupiterian Local
#85598: Apr 25th 2018 at 3:23:11 PM

Are you seriously arguing that it's okay to kill a someone without so much as a trial because they really 99% almost definitely probably did it, and anyway bringing them in alive would be a super pain in the ass?

Suffice to say that I disagree.

Remember, the special forces team that went after Bucky were not trying to capture him while being willing to kill him if necessary. They were specifically ordered to shoot on sight. They were going to kill him no matter what he did, even if he immediately put his hands up and surrendered and never made any threatening moves or attempt to escape whatsoever.

Real hard to see why Cap didn't want to take orders from those guys, anyway.

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.
AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#85599: Apr 25th 2018 at 3:26:57 PM

Killing someone without trial is kind of illegal or some shit, isn't it? I feel like there's an international treaty of some kind about that.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#85600: Apr 25th 2018 at 3:28:17 PM

A non-spoiler theory about where the Soul Stone could be. TL:DW Mat Pat wants it to be with Heimdal, but he thinks it will actually be with Adam Warlock, and that Nebula knows it's with the Sovereign because that's the real reason she was there in the first place: trying to steal it.


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