TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

Marvel Cinematic Universe

Go To

Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#85551: Apr 25th 2018 at 11:15:41 AM

[up] to be frank if a worm hole opens up ahead of North Korea, I wouldn't care one bit if the local government is okay with interference or not, the Avengers being there to defend the earth trumps everything else any day.

Also, Cap is not anti responsibility or anything like that, he just rightly thinks that the people who actually are on the ground defending the earth have a better idea what to do in an emergency than a bunch of politicians. If he had felt that either his or Wanda's actions in Lagos were some sort of punishable crime, he would have turned in himself or convinced Wanda to do it.

And no, randomly interning people is not a good thing. And that Cap wouldn't see it that way is clear - I doubt that he agreed with the internment camps the US had during WWII.

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#85552: Apr 25th 2018 at 11:17:55 AM

Both Cap and Tony come into the Civil War proper emotionally compromised

Like the disagreement about Wanda is something that could have been sorted if they weren't both running so hot

And also if someone had told Wanda. Hell of a goof Tony and/or Vision

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#85553: Apr 25th 2018 at 11:23:18 AM

At the very least they should have asked her if she is okay with house arrest, giving her the option to be brought out of the country if she preferred it.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#85554: Apr 25th 2018 at 11:27:31 AM

Pretty much.

Tony's issue is that he often acts without considering other's thoughts on the matter, even if his heart's in the right place. But we should expect this from Tony Stark, the world's greatest Super Villain.tongue

...Got nothing to say about Cap. Everyone has already said everything they could about him and I'm having too much fun shitting on Tony.cool

One Strip! One Strip!
Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#85555: Apr 25th 2018 at 11:36:40 AM

The reason Tony's going into the accords so fast is that he, personally, needs to satisfy his concience by signing them. But he's pressuring everyone else to go along with it when Ultron was basically entirely his fault.

The Avengers do need some guidelines, but that's something that needs to be hashed out very carefully, not between one asshole representing the UN and one guy who's emotionally comprimised representing the Avengers.

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#85556: Apr 25th 2018 at 11:41:12 AM

The reason Tony's going into the accords so fast is that he, personally, needs to satisfy his concience by signing them. But he's pressuring everyone else to go along with it when Ultron was basically entirely his fault.

You know, reading this, and thinking back on the How It Should Have Ended version of Captain America: Civil War, I now find myself agreeing with the idea of the The Tony Accords.

Also, lock Wanda up.tongue Because I feel like being a jerk.

One Strip! One Strip!
Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#85557: Apr 25th 2018 at 11:42:28 AM

One thing I think is an interesting factor vis-a-vis the accords, and the general national borders in regard to superheroes, is something else we don't have in the real world; extraterrestrials.

Humans are tribalistic animals, and nowhere does that intertwine so prominently with policy but on the national scale; each nation is its own sovereign state whose dealings with each other are borne of diplomacy moreso than human solidarity. But the injection of aliens into the setting actually really shakes things up, because nothing brings disparate groups together into a single tribe like an even MORE foreign group out there flexing its muscles.

Civil War kinda explored that with the mere fact that so many nations, including Wakanda, were able to come together to ratify the Accords and make the Avengers into something more globally-acceptable, and I'd be interested in seeing how the setting gets changed by a second, more widespread alien invasion. Do national borders begin to dissolve in favor of embracing "Earthling" as a globalist identity? Does humanity start to take a more aggressive or even imperialistic stance toward any other extraterrestrial groups they happen to meet, not wanting to take any chances with these new "others"? How about in regard to the Asgardian refugees? Will they be welcomed into the world thanks to their humanlike appearances and Thor being their envoy, or regarded with suspicion thanks to their imperialistic past coming to light?

edited 25th Apr '18 11:43:51 AM by Anomalocaris20

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
NativeJovian Jupiterian Local from Orlando, FL Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Jupiterian Local
#85558: Apr 25th 2018 at 12:01:10 PM

My problem with Cap's argument is that he seems to not understand that one person, or small group can be just a biased or prone to political influence as a government. Only, unlike a government, there are no safeguards in place to control their actions if needed.
Cap's position isn't that one person is better than a group, it's that moral questions always comes down to the individual anyway. You are always responsible for your own actions, so you must make up your own mind whether an action is moral or immoral. You cannot delegate that responsibility. Even if an authority figure or a supervisory organization tells you "this is the right thing to do", you have to decide whether you agree with them or not. And if you disagree with them, then it's your moral duty to go against their orders.

Steve has pretty much always believed this. It goes all the way back to the first real "superhero" thing he did — he disobeyed his commanding officer's orders and went on an unauthorized mission behind enemy lines to rescue a POW group. Hell, it goes back earlier than that — he kept applying for military service because he believed that serving was the right thing to do, even though he had to forge his application documents to do so. Steve is basically Screw the Rules, I'm Doing What's Right! incarnate.

Steve is never going to act in a way he feels he shouldn't, and he's never going to refuse to act when he feels he should. Rejecting the Accords is just an acknowledgement of this.

edited 25th Apr '18 12:03:48 PM by NativeJovian

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.
Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#85559: Apr 25th 2018 at 12:18:49 PM

Steve is never going to act in a way he feels he shouldn't, and he's never going to refuse to act when he feels he should.

Or rather, he won’t unless it involves admitting a murder his friend Bucky was involved in... tongue

What did you think of T’challa in the film? He’s been a little undermentioned, and this film is basically the prequel to his own movie.

edited 25th Apr '18 12:19:06 PM by Tuckerscreator

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#85560: Apr 25th 2018 at 12:21:15 PM

Spin-kick! [awesome]

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#85561: Apr 25th 2018 at 12:28:22 PM

Yeah, for Cap the accords are basically about putting the responsibility on the shoulders of someone else, trusting that he or she will deal with it the right way, instead of taking responsibility for your own actions.

Here is the thing with Cap: Even when he goes against the rules, he is also always ready to take the consequences. Like turning himself in to his superior after rescuing the prisoners. But only as long as he feels that the authority is reasonable. There is nothing reasonable about the raft.

hardcorefakes coolest_guy from probably America Since: Oct, 2015 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
coolest_guy
#85562: Apr 25th 2018 at 12:28:58 PM

[up][up][up]

A murder his friend was forced to commit by way of brainwashing.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#85563: Apr 25th 2018 at 12:33:30 PM

If there is one person totally innocent in Civil War, it is Bucky. Honestly, the poor guy just wanted some plums! And suddenly they try to kill him and take away his backpack of sadness!

At least he got a good look on Steve's abs.....

unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#85564: Apr 25th 2018 at 12:37:11 PM

[up]And yet he kill them, that it, Tony have been affected by that by and as minimum if Cap really hard about doing the right thing, he SHOULD have told him.

Is the peak of Cap hipocresy that moment:he will do whatever he feels right except when he won.

Also the biggest problem the whole discussion cause is one:accountability.

I mean ross was right: if he lost a nuke, they would kick him out of the military and lock him up, Tony taked a alien element that was in the hands of hydra and experimented on it, this means is HIS fault that sokovia dosent exist anymore and any death is on his hands as result.

And yet.....nothing, he got away with it, the team did nothing and the event isnt mentioned again, the same can be said about Wanda but let not kick that can of worm again.....

edited 25th Apr '18 12:40:01 PM by unknowing

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#85565: Apr 25th 2018 at 12:37:27 PM

[up][up]Well yes, but the point is that Steve didn’t want to admit it. He put aside the moral responsibility there for his own feelings, as he admitted at the end.

edited 25th Apr '18 12:37:42 PM by Tuckerscreator

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#85566: Apr 25th 2018 at 12:42:07 PM

Neither Thor nor Bruce are "nukes". They are human beings. Well, Bruce is, Thor is technically an alien being, but still a thinking person. And, btw, not under the jurisdiction of earth. They can force him to obey their laws while he is on earth, but they can't force him to check in with them and stay on earth if he doesn't want to.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#85567: Apr 25th 2018 at 12:46:26 PM

I mean ross was right: if he lost a nuke, they would kick him out of the military and lock him up

Ross didn't just lose the Nuke, he created another nuke to find that nuke if you recall. And yet, he is still in a position of power despite that.

Tony taked a alien element that was in the hands of hydra and experimented on it, this means is HIS fault that sokovia dosent exist anymore and any death is on his hands as result. And yet.....nothing, he got away with it, the team did nothing and the event isnt mentioned again, the same can be said about Wanda but let not kick that can of worm again.....

Honestly, Civil War should have just been Zemo being locked in a room with a tied up Tony and being allowed to kick him in the nuts until the end of time.tongue

Less death that way. In fact, if Tony had turned himself in (maybe with Wanda, maybe without) then maybe Zemo might not have killed so many people to get back at him.

Damn that Tony, making Zemo into a murderer. I always knew he was the true villain of Marvel. Zemo had no choice but to kill a lot of innocent people in order to stop him.cool

Note, I'm joking about Zemo being justified in how he went about his revenge. I mean, in the end Tony does try to fix his mistake (even if he makes more in the process) while Zemo was just gonna kill himself now that he got what he wanted and not face the responsibility of his actions.

Still less of a villain than Tony Stark.[lol]

edited 25th Apr '18 12:46:40 PM by HandsomeRob

One Strip! One Strip!
unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#85568: Apr 25th 2018 at 12:46:28 PM

[up][up]And yet one of them have the power to blow up a city....hell we see what Tony can do with ultron, what else can Bruce or other can do?

a regular person dosent have the destructive power of avengers and people should just sort of expect them to police themselves?

No, no thanks.

[up]shhhhhhhhhh, we dont talk about that movie.

edited 25th Apr '18 12:47:53 PM by unknowing

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#85569: Apr 25th 2018 at 12:49:20 PM

That is a good point - regardless of the Avengers own moral standing, that's the fate of the world being kept in the hands of about ten people.

Like, why don't they get an equivalent of X-COM in Iron Man suits? That seems like it would vastly increase the Earth's defence capabilities. They have Stark and Rhodey, why not more people? We've already seen even one armoured guy is an even match for many aliens, so why not 50 or 100? I mean, Tony was planning on putting that sort of power in the hands of an AI - why not actual humans?

edited 25th Apr '18 12:50:49 PM by Sigilbreaker26

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#85570: Apr 25th 2018 at 12:51:23 PM

[up][up] Well, let's put it this way: If I want to apprehend a dangerous assassin, I don't send the village deputy to do the job, I send special forces. In the context of apprehending Bucky that would mean to send Vision and Rhodey with orders to catch him alive if they really felt they couldn't trust Steve with this. NOT giving out a kill order to people who are frankly no match for The Winter Soldier. They were lucky that Bucky was himself when the attack happened.

[up] Because he doesn't want those weapons in the hands of terrorists. Hence the need to police who gets those special suits. We do the same when we try to police which countries are allowed to have nuclear weapons.

edited 25th Apr '18 12:52:41 PM by Swanpride

unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#85571: Apr 25th 2018 at 12:52:21 PM

[up][up]Snd it only took two of those ten people to turn a city into rubble and nearly kill the world by a colony drop.

that is impresive.

edited 25th Apr '18 12:53:27 PM by unknowing

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#85572: Apr 25th 2018 at 12:56:23 PM

[up][up] Giving weaponry to your own government doesn't automatically mean they'll be in the hands of terrorists. This isn't the cold war anymore.

There's a giant alien threat looming over the world, 50-100 Iron Men could really turn the tide.

Heck, if I was the US I'd just go "emininent domain bitch, hand over the blueprints". Actually, screw the accords - just get Tony to hand over the Iron Man suit plans and build your own anti-alien task force. Screw controlling the Avengers. You don't need them.

It's completely irresponsible for governments to entrust the fate of the world to ten people with serious opposition to safeguards and who will at the drop of a hat do things like drag a teenage meta into a fight or hire a criminal on the run.

Heck, as you point out Captain America has serious personal issues to obeying any command he doesn't like - which is exactly the opposite of what a soldier needs to be.

edited 25th Apr '18 12:59:48 PM by Sigilbreaker26

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#85573: Apr 25th 2018 at 12:58:01 PM

What if they cloned Tony Stark so there's hundreds of ironmen

We could them the Iron hands!

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#85574: Apr 25th 2018 at 12:58:23 PM

[up][up]I mean, they didnt have any problem with taking a ex agent of Hydra(Wanda) in their hands I think they can police the applicants to more iron suits.

Is not really that hard.

[up]But them you will have hundred of tony starks....

No, just no.

edited 25th Apr '18 12:59:36 PM by unknowing

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#85575: Apr 25th 2018 at 1:00:15 PM

He's making a 40k joke, I think.

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"

Total posts: 186,763
Top