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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
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If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#85201: Apr 22nd 2018 at 3:09:36 PM

[up][up] When you put it that way, it makes the entire scene pretty hilarious. [lol]

God I love Ego, Kurt Russel really nailed it there. [tup]

edited 22nd Apr '18 3:09:48 PM by slimcoder

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#85202: Apr 22nd 2018 at 3:17:31 PM

" that doesn't undermine any of the drama in Odin's death at all. "

It kinda does because their father- sons relationships look really fakes in general: Loki acused him of using him as levarage ticket the moment he took him away from the gigants, Thor never really care that much about the Throne and on top of that, the fact this movie said Odin was a imperalist conqueror kinda taints is past action in a worst light, mixing that by the fact he just die and now is sons must to deal with HIS mess, it look like he just go away with his shit.

" People complaining about it being a "non-stop joke fest" really didn't seem to actually pay attention to the movie. For most of it I was saying over and over again "How is this too joke-y?""

Well, to Quote Mackey.

"the humor is almost exclusively irreverent with characters refusing to take situations seriously and prefer mocking the threat and lampshading the scenes that should be more serious and dramatic. "

Is the same sins AOU and Ragnarok share, things like Thor "wait!" comment to Sultur, Banner not given a damn Loki is there(you know, the same person who try to use him), Banner jumping to the byfrost, asgard being destroy,etc and that is of course bringing the whole Saakar sub plot.

Is a shame that event call the ragnarok, the end of things get so underdevolp like that.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#85203: Apr 22nd 2018 at 3:20:21 PM

Thor never really care that much about the Throne

The whole first movie is about Thor moving from caring about the throne too much to understanding he's not ready for it yet, including most of his actions being fueled by love for his father, same as Loki.

AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#85204: Apr 22nd 2018 at 3:20:58 PM

the humor is almost exclusively irreverent with characters refusing to take situations seriously and prefer mocking the threat and lampshading the scenes that should be more serious and dramatic.

Which scenes does it lampshade as being dramatic? Refusing to take it seriously is overstating things and I don't recall that much outside of the end where it's mocking the drama. Yes, a couple of moments, but to act like it's the entire damn film requires not paying attention to the damn thing.

And Unknowing, dude, I can barely understand what you're saying.

[up]

That as well.

edited 22nd Apr '18 3:21:13 PM by AdricDePsycho

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#85205: Apr 22nd 2018 at 3:21:53 PM

I know that it's not out of character for Ego. I never said such a thing. It is in character. I specifically said "my problem is not that it's out of character for Ego" - which I suppose could be interpreted as "it's out of character for Ego but it doesn't bother me", so to clarify, it is in character for Ego - but it's still dumb. It's still a dumb decision to include that line because it cheats Peter of his moral growth in that film.

We know that Peter cares about his mother. That's what the climax of the previous film was about. But having that be the turning point in GOTG 2 is dumb, because it makes Peter look like he only cares about his mother and not about the other members of the GOTG.

Instead of it being a battle between Ego, who (as LE mentioned in her video, is so afraid of connection that he murders his only love) and Peter, who has found bonds that keep him going, it's a battle between Ego and Peter over simple revenge.

edited 22nd Apr '18 3:25:06 PM by Sigilbreaker26

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#85206: Apr 22nd 2018 at 3:22:45 PM

Here's a thing,a planet sized Ego is a fairly ridiculous concept but they managed to make it work,but what about something like MODOK?A floating head thing that kills things is probably just as ridiculous

edited 22nd Apr '18 3:23:41 PM by Ultimatum

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#85207: Apr 22nd 2018 at 3:26:26 PM

Peter is still pretty immature. His love for his mom is his most positive feature. We see him reaching out to his teammates too, but the lure of his “real” Dad briefly overrides that bond. Until Ego says he killed Peter’s mom. That breaks the spell.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#85208: Apr 22nd 2018 at 3:29:51 PM

It was the only unambiguously negative thing Ego said.

Everything else Peter could believe "Oh its not that bad" but realizing he did something so horrible in such plain detail broke the illusion.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#85209: Apr 22nd 2018 at 3:31:58 PM

Peter arc(And Got G 2) is all about father figures and family, Ego is everything Peter want on a father(handsome, fatherly, powerfull, have a "good" reason to stay away) so learing the truth and get away from it IS moral grow.

That is why they use the chain in that moment, it dosent matter if is father dosent love him, he cant break the chain.....

"Adric:

"The whole first movie is about Thor moving from caring about the throne too much to understanding he's not ready for it yet, including most of his actions being fueled by love for his father, same as Loki. "

Thor dosent even care about the trone that much in the first movie. is central arc is about being less of a hothead and prone to picking fights, this harm Ragnaerok because he dosent even have any conection to Hela(You know....her long loss sister).

Adric: By the moment Thor reach Saakar the movie pretty much give us on try anything serious and treat the ragnarok moment like your typical marvel fight even when it should have the biggest moment for Thor(seeing is homeland destroy) and yet it undercuted by two stupid jokes.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#85210: Apr 22nd 2018 at 3:35:26 PM

Unknowing, I'm trying to be polite here but I can barely decipher what you're saying and it's making it hard to even discuss anything in here.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#85211: Apr 22nd 2018 at 3:36:47 PM

We kind of just had the floating head which killed people in Ao S...and no, it wasn't ridiculous, they made it work. Mostly by leaving out the floating part.....

unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#85212: Apr 22nd 2018 at 3:37:35 PM

Ok, let me said quikly here: Ragnarok barely have any serious moments and most of the jokes then to undercut the moment by implating a joke at the end of it, case in point Hulk jumping to atack Sulfur and Korg joke when asgard is destroy.

Also, Odin callous treatment of is sons kinda undermines the scene of is death.

Got it now?.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#85213: Apr 22nd 2018 at 3:39:13 PM

Actually taking Hela into account it makes perfect sense why Odin was so harsh to his sons.

He really doesn't want another genocidal warlord again.

Also Thor did want the throne, it was part of how entitled he was in the first movie.

edited 22nd Apr '18 3:39:43 PM by slimcoder

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#85214: Apr 22nd 2018 at 3:41:40 PM

Those two jokes are at the end and I agree undercut things a bit, but as I've said over and over again, it is only at the end where things get too joke-y. The rest of the film is not like that for the most part. Heimdall's scenes, Hela's scenes, the talk in the elevator, Odin's death, Valkyrie's flashback, are any of these undercut by jokes? Any of them whatsoever?

And no, Odin's shitty treatment of his sons doesn't undercut the drama. As Tucker pointed out, it makes it more dramatic because it leaves them with a bunch of mixed emotions.

[up]

Also this. To say Thor didn't want the throne in the first Thor is to ignore the entire damn movie.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#85215: Apr 22nd 2018 at 3:42:26 PM

Swanpride,then they didn't have a floay head guy if they didn't float!

edited 22nd Apr '18 3:43:09 PM by Ultimatum

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#85216: Apr 22nd 2018 at 3:43:11 PM

[up][up][up]But he lie to loki about is heritage....just in the same way he lie everyone about Hela.

Hell, one can make the argument that the real reason he hide Loki parantage is because he dosent want Loki to know the whole truth.

"it makes it more dramatic because it leaves them with a bunch of mixed emotions."

Which it dosent matter because no soon after that, come Hela, another of Odin screw up that is sons have to clean up and it ultimate cost their homeland.

And them the movie goes into Saakar or Hulk and Thor buddy sequence and stop pretending to be serious at all.

edited 22nd Apr '18 3:46:48 PM by unknowing

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#85217: Apr 22nd 2018 at 3:43:54 PM

And that ruins the drama how?

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#85218: Apr 22nd 2018 at 3:44:13 PM

Thor was a spoiled prince who did whatever he wanted because he was Asgard's privileged son & next in line for the throne.

I think one of the justifications he used for attacking the Ice Giants was "Hey I'm gonna be God-King soon, better get to work."

Doesn't lying add to the drama?

edited 22nd Apr '18 3:44:54 PM by slimcoder

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#85219: Apr 22nd 2018 at 3:46:13 PM

[up][up][up][up] Sure, but I think the "head guy" is more questionable than the "floaty" part.

unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#85220: Apr 22nd 2018 at 3:52:33 PM

[up][up]Yes and No, it add to the drama but not in the central moment when it should be: confronting Odin while he dies about all is actions and choices. Instead he have peacefull and gentle death and soon after, is damn mistake come, crush Mjoljir and cause the destruction of Asgard.

In short, Odin come more as Karma houdini for me.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
Mizerous Pet Owner from Hell Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: Brewing the love potion
Pet Owner
#85221: Apr 22nd 2018 at 3:53:41 PM

I think he realized before he died how much he's screwed up otherwise he would have never helped Thor out when he was on the ropes.

Just Makima.
unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#85222: Apr 22nd 2018 at 4:01:01 PM

[up]Maybe? Is kinda hard to said it since Odin spend so much time to cover up is deeds....

Which it bring another point: Odin was so good to cover up is imperalism? like....REALLY? NOBODY remenber Hela? Considering the Asgardian lifespan, I found that very unlikey.

Also, if Valkire used to serve as sort of honor guard to Odin...does that mean she did participate in his imperalism? I mean there is the whole issue of her being slaver, but a imperalist enabler....yucks.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#85223: Apr 22nd 2018 at 4:04:04 PM

Thor as a trilogy overall is kind of shaky. All the films have had different directors and relatively speaking Waititi has a pretty different directorial style from Kenneth Branagh and Alan Taylor, and I think was probably given a bit more control in comparison.

So a lot of stuff from Ragnarok actually ties in decently well and adds some depth to scenes and characters from the first Thor (mostly involving Laufey), but it's not surprising that it wouldn't tie in perfectly.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#85224: Apr 22nd 2018 at 4:04:48 PM

[up][up] Did you know that the Civil War was about State rights? And that the Commonwealth countries can't wait to have a trade deal with the UK, because of their "special relationship"? And that Putin is the heroic guy who defended the poor Ukraine against the West?

It is so easy to rewrite history. Especially history people should be ashamed of.

edited 22nd Apr '18 4:05:09 PM by Swanpride

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#85225: Apr 22nd 2018 at 4:06:12 PM

[up] Especially in the case of immortal beings.

Everything involving Hela happened so long ago that only the oldest of beings would even remember her.

edited 22nd Apr '18 4:06:26 PM by slimcoder

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."

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