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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#85176: Apr 22nd 2018 at 11:56:08 AM

[up][up] Zemo is what escalates the conflict into actual violence, put Bucky on the watch-list, & how Zemo found out about the other super-soldiers, without which the airport battle would have never happened.

To say he had only a tangential effect on the plot if bullshit.

edited 22nd Apr '18 11:56:22 AM by slimcoder

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#85177: Apr 22nd 2018 at 11:59:31 AM

[up][up] Apparently in the cut scenes they make it more explicit that the dark elves can’t survive in the current universe, they are literally allergic to light. So Malekith wants to turn everything back into darkness or dark matter. Like the world was when they were born.

unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#85178: Apr 22nd 2018 at 12:00:56 PM

[up][up]That only motive Cap to go against him, it Was the accords and Tony and Cap falling what put the whole issue into the fight.

More important it help zemo More that it should, taking all the Avengers and giving Time to reach Siberia, the team lost the moment they fight in the airport.

edited 22nd Apr '18 12:03:46 PM by unknowing

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#85179: Apr 22nd 2018 at 12:04:30 PM

[up][up] Wait...aren't the Elves from a different world which already is dark? (Not to mention that Cut scenes are pretty useless when you watch a movie).

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#85180: Apr 22nd 2018 at 12:06:14 PM

[up][up] Even if Cap disagreed with the accords he never planned on being an outlaw until Bucky was brought into the mix.

As well as the fact Zemo was the one released Bucky while also triggering him.

If Bucky stayed arrested the first time, the movie would have been over.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#85181: Apr 22nd 2018 at 12:09:02 PM

I don't think any of the villains had unreasonable motivations, some of them just had rather one-dimensional motivations. Malekith's concept is that he and his race come from the elder darkness of the universe and thus the entirety of creation is repulsive to them so he wants to bring the world back to the natural state his people lived in. Kaecillius's concept is a sort of bizarre Well-Intentioned Extremist variant that he finds death and decay to be disease and wants to cure the world by getting rid of that.

The problem is neither of them gets to really dwell on their motivations. Malekith's motivation is Info Dumped by Odin in two separate occasions rather than the character himself address it (because Malekith's entire screentime was butchered to make room for more Loki) and Kaecillius only gets one scene to explain himself at the end of the second act.

Killian's a rich asshole who wants money and that's about it. Obadiah Stane and Darren Cross are the other MCU villains varying on that concept, but both have way stronger writing surrounding them and more solid performances. Killian's just a cardboard cutout with Guy Pearce's voice coming out of it. Stane gets to enjoy Jeff Bridges's natural charisma as a avuncular surrogate father figure to Tony (his most interesting aspect) and Darren Cross gets Corey Stoll losing his shit across the film's runtime and his petty child relationship with Hank Pym (also his most interesting aspect).

Killian gets absolutely nothing.

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#85182: Apr 22nd 2018 at 12:16:05 PM

[up][up]Cap Was already Being clóse to be a outlaw not agreeing with the accords, it Was the same accords who divided the team, and put Tony into arresting him

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#85183: Apr 22nd 2018 at 12:16:43 PM

Killian gets his first scene (though I agree that Stane is by far the best rich asshole villain in the series).

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#85184: Apr 22nd 2018 at 12:17:14 PM

Since people were rating the MCU films a few pages back, I figured I might as well, too (5 is average, I don't actually dislike any of the MCU films):

Avengers: Age of Ultron: 9.3

Avengers: 9

Captain America: Civil War: 9

Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 2: 8.8

Black Panther: 8.5

Iron Man 3: 8.5

Spider-Man Homecoming: 8.5

Guardians of the Galaxy: 8.5

Captain America: The Winter Soldier: 8

Iron Man: 7.5

Captain America: The First Avenger: 7.5

Dr. Strange: 7.5

Ant-Man: 7.5

Iron Man 2: 7

Thor: 7

Thor: The Dark World: 6.5

The Incredible Hulk: 6

(haven't seen Thor: Ragnarok)

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#85185: Apr 22nd 2018 at 12:47:32 PM

Kursed being stronger than Malekith is true to the comics

The Beyonder was involved though

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#85186: Apr 22nd 2018 at 12:52:02 PM

So I saw Black Panther again one last time before Infinity War on Thursday.

Black Panther is a fucking masterpiece.

Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#85187: Apr 22nd 2018 at 12:53:00 PM

I mean... it's good... but it's hardly a masterpiece.

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#85188: Apr 22nd 2018 at 1:02:22 PM

I think the significance of Black Panther isn't even that it's necessarily the deepest or most thought-provoking film about the experiences of african people or african americans, but that it's pretty damn good and that it's the kind of film that has a much bigger reach. It's the kind of film a lot of people have been wanting for a long time, as can be seen by its humongous box office success. There have been some african and african-american critics who have had more critical takes on the movie, but pretty much all of them have remarked that they're happy the film exists at all even if it isn't perfect.

edited 22nd Apr '18 1:03:11 PM by Draghinazzo

Punisher286 Since: Jan, 2016
#85189: Apr 22nd 2018 at 1:04:07 PM

I'd say that it's a great film of it's genre, and a well-put together film in-general.

And perhaps the greatest compliment that I can pay it is that it's the most fun that I've had at the movies in a long while.

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#85190: Apr 22nd 2018 at 1:09:20 PM

It's a better Tomorrowland movie than the Tomorrowland movie.

Also, Willow, this makes it your sixth time watching BP? evil grin

KJMackley Since: Jan, 2001
#85191: Apr 22nd 2018 at 1:53:52 PM

Black Panther is certainly one of the "cleaner" MCU movies, and blockbusters in general. It's confident in its own story and isn't bogged down with too many sequel hooks. I will say the action is fairly mediocre, it relies too much on CGI and as a result feels neutered (most people seem to agree the Klaue chase scene was the highlight).

Regarding the humor, the issue is not that humor exists in these movies but that the kind of humor is actively detrimental to building character and tension. Odin's final scene in Ragnarok tries to be more serious and poignant, but is sandwiched between the goofy antics with Doctor Strange and Hela's random first appearance, with much of his dialogue dedicated to setting up more plot rather than holding on the emotion of a father saying goodbye to his children.

These kind of issues are endemic to nearly every MCU movie, the humor is almost exclusively irreverent with characters refusing to take situations seriously and prefer mocking the threat and lampshading the scenes that should be more serious and dramatic. It's why I think First Avenger, Winter Soldier and Black Panther are the better films of the franchise because the humor was more sedated, though I was still annoyed with Sam's dig about Steve's "Stand with me" speech to SHIELD. I was almost ready to write off Black Panther for the "testing the kinetic reverb feature" scene, but they handled it with more grace than normal.

wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#85192: Apr 22nd 2018 at 1:59:46 PM

[up][up] ... eighth, I think.

[down] Please don’t.

edited 22nd Apr '18 2:02:53 PM by wisewillow

Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#85194: Apr 22nd 2018 at 2:02:56 PM

Isn't the humor that plagues Marvel & many movies not even Marvel in general Whedon snark?

edited 22nd Apr '18 2:03:54 PM by slimcoder

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#85195: Apr 22nd 2018 at 2:18:19 PM

with much of his dialogue dedicated to setting up more plot rather than holding on the emotion of a father saying goodbye to his children.

I disagree. It is emotional, because it reveals that Odin was lying to Thor and Loki for their entire lives, and sets off them questioning just what their family was and what Asgard was really meant to be. They don't want Odin to die, but then they're confronted that he hid an enormous crime from them that is suddenly now about to become their responsibility without him. And they're left emotionally confused and conflicted by his departure.

edited 22nd Apr '18 2:21:30 PM by Tuckerscreator

Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#85196: Apr 22nd 2018 at 2:19:24 PM

> Please don’t.

aw,fine.

edit:I could understand hiding things from Thor,but Loki is smarter then that and probably already knew,which is probably futher pushed into Thnaos's hands

edited 22nd Apr '18 2:29:48 PM by Ultimatum

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#85197: Apr 22nd 2018 at 2:28:53 PM

I mean, I do, but I don't want to get into it.

AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#85198: Apr 22nd 2018 at 3:02:24 PM

Odin death feel pretty insincere to me because of Is questionable treatment towards Is sons. From banishing Thor to not properly dealing with Loki, in the end he got away with everything and Is sons ended facing the Fallout for that. And the movie does have the same mistake of AOU, where serious moments get undermind by joke.

I can barely parse any of this but that doesn't undermine any of the drama in Odin's death at all. The humor in Ragnarok sort of undermines some of the drama but compared to Age of Ultron, not as much. People complaining about it being a "non-stop joke fest" really didn't seem to actually pay attention to the movie. For most of it I was saying over and over again "How is this too joke-y?". Age of Ultron, meanwhile, is so goddamn annoying that I gave up partway through watching it to listen to a Ween album.

As for Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 2, I have no idea how Ego is somehow out of character in telling Peter about how he gave his mom cancer. His name is fucking Ego, of course he'd let that get the better of him. He's an asshole who is full of himself and legitimately thinks he'll still have Peter on his side because that's just how self absorbed he is.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#85199: Apr 22nd 2018 at 3:07:38 PM

Ego's whole second scene is about revealing how far beyond he views himself as being above other peoples of the galaxy, that he reacts to Peter shooting him for killing his mother, as though he got shot in the face over stealing a sandwich from the fridge.

edited 22nd Apr '18 3:07:57 PM by Tuckerscreator

wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#85200: Apr 22nd 2018 at 3:08:41 PM

[up][up] Agreed.

[up] Exactly. Ego doesn’t comprehend attachments and emotions.


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