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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
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    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Punisher286 Since: Jan, 2016
#85151: Apr 22nd 2018 at 11:14:53 AM

I mean there are villains who are close, Kaecilius, Yellowjacket, etc. But Malekith probably takes the cake for sheer boredom and generic.

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#85152: Apr 22nd 2018 at 11:22:44 AM

I'd rank Kaecilius and Malekith far below Killian. Killian was boring but at least Guy Pearce got to take his shirt off and had some good lines ("My father was kind of an idiot" was gold). The other two were an unforgivable waste of talented actors.

Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#85153: Apr 22nd 2018 at 11:23:58 AM

Some people would say Helena but eh

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#85154: Apr 22nd 2018 at 11:25:56 AM

One of Killian's few advantages is that he is a villain with powers that aren't a carbon copy of the hero's, and is a legitimate physical threat to the Iron Man suits.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#85155: Apr 22nd 2018 at 11:30:11 AM

My problem with Stane was always that he is so obviously evil that I don't get how Tony and Rhodey ever trusted him. That's what makes Alexander Pierce a so much better villain. I just knew that he would be the bad guy, but not because of his actions, but because he was the most likely candidate from a narrative pov, and I actually doubted the assessment a couple of times, wondering if he might be a red herring.

Thing is, I love the various Marvel villains for different reasons. I love Alexander Pierce because his story is so relatable, I actually believe that he started out with good intentions. I love Loki because he is so complex, and because his internalized racism and self-hatred is such an unusual motivation. I love Ego because I freaking hate him! When he revealed what he had done, I wanted to jump through the screen and trottle him! I NEVER felt that way about any villain, ever. And then he went and destroyed the cassette tape! That Monster! I love Zemo, because he is a smart villain, and I love smart villains. And I love successful villains. That's what I always had a weak spot for Xanathos, too, and Zemo is kind of like him, but without the self-preservation and driven by revenge. I love Vulture because, well, frankly because his connection to Spider-Man is interesting. And I am saying that as someone who didn't want another villain with a personal connection to Spider-Man, but this one was so well done!

And they are all played by excellent actors.

wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#85156: Apr 22nd 2018 at 11:30:38 AM

...wait, why didn’t Malekith just chuck a black hole grenade at Thor?! Those things were insanely effective!

Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#85157: Apr 22nd 2018 at 11:31:03 AM

Do you have any idea how expensive those things are?!

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#85158: Apr 22nd 2018 at 11:31:44 AM

With Killian I at least get his plan. It makes sense. And he is well acted. Malekith, well, his plan doesn't make one lick of sense, and the Cursed is a bigger threat than him.

Punisher286 Since: Jan, 2016
#85159: Apr 22nd 2018 at 11:31:48 AM

Hela gets by largely do to a great visual design/look and a wonderfully entertaining performance by Cate Blanchett.

Now if we include the TV shows, then the list of good/interesting villains/antagonists gets A LOT longer/more varied.

Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#85160: Apr 22nd 2018 at 11:32:19 AM

I think Zemo is an effective villain with understandable motivations, but he doesn't really stand out much in Civil War compared to the drama between all the different heroes.

Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#85161: Apr 22nd 2018 at 11:36:57 AM

My problem with Ego is not that it's out of character for him to say that. It's that it denies Peter his moral growth.

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#85162: Apr 22nd 2018 at 11:37:03 AM

I still wonder how'd he work in a Thunderbolts movie.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#85163: Apr 22nd 2018 at 11:37:43 AM

Malekith is pissed at Odin’s dad (fair enough) and something something this universe is too shiny, we want to turn off the lights using the aether. Kinda makes sense just VERY undeveloped.

Kaecilius: hates death for some never explained reason?????

Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#85164: Apr 22nd 2018 at 11:39:14 AM

Kaecilius was less offensive than Malekith since A. he wasn't literally beaten by the hero's elderly mother and B. he's not the villain in Doctor Strange. Dormammu is.

Killain's fine. He has one really good scene (the opening contemplating suicide one) and doesn't really ever live up to that potential again. But in the kingdom of the bland the man with one interesting scene is king.

edited 22nd Apr '18 11:41:01 AM by Sigilbreaker26

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#85165: Apr 22nd 2018 at 11:40:07 AM

Frigga is a badass and that bit didn’t bother me. Dormammu is barely in the movie; Kaecilius functions as the main villain.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#85166: Apr 22nd 2018 at 11:41:43 AM

He is only a henchmen, though. And yes, as henchmen go, Crossbones or Klaw left a bigger impact.

Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#85167: Apr 22nd 2018 at 11:43:21 AM

I don't care if she's a badass. If the villain needs to be bailed out so early on in the film it makes him laughable.

Also, Kaecillius's motivations are "I don't want to die" which is at least basically comprehensible if wholly one dimensional, and therefore above Malekith's "I want to turn the world into a darkness dimension."

But he's not the main villain. Dormammu is. Kaecillius is just The Heavy.

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
Punisher286 Since: Jan, 2016
#85168: Apr 22nd 2018 at 11:44:02 AM

My only problem with the Frigga thing is that it was so obvious that they were only focusing on her more so that the audience would care at least a little when she died.

If I remember correctly, Kaecilius hated death because his family was killed. So it falls into the Killian/Malekith/Yellowjacket/Etc idea of "well I kind of get their motivation. It's just a really bland, cliché, and underdeveloped motivation."

unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#85169: Apr 22nd 2018 at 11:47:29 AM

Zemo Is good but Is plan dosent make Sense because the Avengers beat themselves before they got him.

So in truth, he never beat the Avengers, just finish them off.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#85170: Apr 22nd 2018 at 11:49:19 AM

Didn't he cause the explosion that framed Bucky?

He damn near started the whole plot.

Well him & Scarlet Witch.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#85171: Apr 22nd 2018 at 11:49:21 AM

What was Malekith's motivation again?

Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#85172: Apr 22nd 2018 at 11:50:27 AM

He wanted to turn the universe into a dark world.

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#85173: Apr 22nd 2018 at 11:50:34 AM

We saw Malekith’s people dying, and the whole “they existed before this universe and want their world back” thing kinda made sense to me.

Kaecilius is the biggest anatagonist in Strange, but he’s got no clear motivation to me. We know nothing about his supposed dead family; nothing about who he lost or how he lost them or why he decided Dormammu was the answer. So he doesn’t work for me.

edited 22nd Apr '18 11:51:13 AM by wisewillow

unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#85174: Apr 22nd 2018 at 11:53:40 AM

[up][up][up][up]sure but the accords were diving the team already and the airport fight already take the Avengers out, Is actual plan of using the video means very litte at all.

edited 22nd Apr '18 11:55:17 AM by unknowing

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#85175: Apr 22nd 2018 at 11:55:44 AM

[up][up][up] Why? That is his end goal, but what is his motivation for doing it?

edited 22nd Apr '18 11:56:04 AM by Swanpride


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