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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#85076: Apr 21st 2018 at 6:20:34 AM

[up] I see your concerns, and I actually shared it when watching the first movie, but I have now realized that Gamora having such a strong moral compass makes her backstory even more compelling, because it means that she was forced to act against her own nature for years just to survive. Watching Vol 2 made me realize that she was compartmentalizing her actions, because otherwise, she wouldn't be able to function - hence her reactions to Nebula. And in turn, Nebula was doing the same, but in the opposite direction.

It also would be kind of boring if they were both driven by revenge.

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#85077: Apr 21st 2018 at 9:44:09 AM

edited 21st Apr '18 10:12:00 AM by comicwriter

Mizerous Pet Owner from Hell Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: Brewing the love potion
Pet Owner
#85078: Apr 21st 2018 at 1:24:42 PM

And they get the "Greatest" Royal Rumble ever...

Just Makima.
windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#85080: Apr 21st 2018 at 4:38:34 PM

Thought this was cool. Bullying targets taking inspiration from the Avengers. (Though the title kinda makes it sound like a team of the world's greatest bullies.)

[up]Neato.

edited 21st Apr '18 4:39:13 PM by comicwriter

Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#85081: Apr 21st 2018 at 6:30:58 PM

I saw Ragnarok again today.

Still a pretty fun movie. I think it's probably one of the MCU's funniest films overall; it's common to say the MCU has a lot of jokes but Ragnarok I think has some of the funniest thanks to the improv and the great delivery from everyone.

Hela's a bit thin but Blanchett is really trying her best to make it work so I don't feel too upset with her overall.

There are some other criticisms I think can be made about the imperialism theme could have been fleshed out more (as much as I love the bro adventures of Hulk and Thor on Sakaar some of the film's other aspects do suffer for it), but it's still a fun ride and the best Thor movie without question.

We're all basically caught up for Infinity War now.

AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#85082: Apr 21st 2018 at 6:37:47 PM

Yeah, upon rewatch, Ragnarok's themes of imperialism, while there in some manner, really needed fleshing out. There's huge stretches of the film where, while I'm loving the action, I'm thinking "Wait, where's Hela again?". Not to say she's a bad villain, because while she's flat she's also entertaining as heck. Threatening too.

Still, I love this movie to bits and it's fun. Out of all of the MCU films, it's probably the most fun out of all of them. Though I know there's been criticisms of it being "too joke-y" and shit and I'm like...not really? The end has it get too joke-y, granted, but for most of the film there's moments of surprising tenseness or emotion that I love. Odin's death is played completely straight, much of the action is played pretty straight (bar one or two bad jokes, like Banner not immediately hulking out when he falls out of the ship), and Heimdall's scenes are played completely straight. It's not like Age of Ultron where Joss is busy fellating himself to all of his bad jokes. Hell, it's better than some of the awkward jokes in Spider-Man: Homecoming or the Iron Man sequels.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
Mizerous Pet Owner from Hell Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: Brewing the love potion
Pet Owner
#85083: Apr 21st 2018 at 9:12:29 PM

I think the feeling is there are too many jokes for the tone of the movie to hit home.

Just Makima.
AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#85084: Apr 21st 2018 at 9:13:57 PM

I still don't understand saying there's too many jokes. Like, okay yeah, a couple of jokes fail to sell well and ruin a couple of moments, but the way I've heard some people put it, you'd think everything was a nonstop joke fest like Age of Ultron.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
XJTordecai Watch the seventh wave Since: Jun, 2013
Watch the seventh wave
#85085: Apr 21st 2018 at 9:48:34 PM

One of my favorite jokes has to be where Thor tries to use Natasha's lullaby on Hulk when he's down... and then gets promptly smacked around a la Loki in The Avengers. That grin Thor has right before it happens adds to it.

On my wave, passing oooooooon
AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#85086: Apr 21st 2018 at 9:50:33 PM

The lullaby callback seemed like Waititi spitting on Age of Ultron and it made me laugh.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#85087: Apr 21st 2018 at 9:51:40 PM

It almost worked but Hulk chose celebrity over love.

He needs a very special episode to learn his lesson.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#85088: Apr 21st 2018 at 9:52:53 PM

Oddly, I bought Natasha and Bruce here better than I did in AOU.

It's clear Hulk likes her and vice versa.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#85089: Apr 21st 2018 at 10:11:16 PM

I loved Thor doing the lullaby thing mostly because I felt that he should have been the one doing it all along.

Anyway, I have two problems with the Humor on Ragnarök: 1. It is one specific kind of humour, which makes it boring pretty fast, because it becomes predictable. When you know that he simply will support everything, things like Bruce Banner jumping out of the spaceship just don't work because I was sure that he would NOT turn into the Hulk.

2. Unlike the Got G, Ragnarök doesn't give the the sadder moments any room to breath, and that REALLY annoyed me, because I feel that you need both, the sad and the funny moments, so that they can offset each other. If you don't all the sad any room, you get the opposite of darkness fatigue. Or at least I do.

AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#85090: Apr 21st 2018 at 10:13:16 PM

Again: Odin's death. Most of Heimdall's scenes. Hell, most of Hela's scenes. Much of the ending fight between Thor and Hela's forces. Most of that is given room to breathe and isn't ruined by the humor. And it being one type...so are most of the Marvel movies though?

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#85091: Apr 21st 2018 at 10:15:51 PM

Yeah, from the discovery of Odin at Norway all the way to Valkyrie's introduction, there's a long fifteen minute span where there's basically no jokes.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#85092: Apr 21st 2018 at 10:34:07 PM

[up][up] Odin's death is frankly badly written. It is a fast job which just screams "the actor wanted out as fast as possible and had no interest to even don the costume". To me the movie starts once Thor lands on Sakar, everything else is just "let's get rid of everything we had beforehand as fast as possible". Hell, even the warriors three just die and then aren't mentioned again. Thor is really torn up about losing all his friends....

And the Heimdal scenes are not there in order to allow the audience to be sad, they are there to ramp up suspense.

There is one emotional scene in the movie which works, both in rhythm and content, and that is the elevator talk between Thor and Loki. But even if there were more of them, the most important part of it is the ending, and the movie doesn't allow the audience to truly grief over a whole civilisation being destroyed. And that is always depressing, even if it was a sh... one built on war.

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#85093: Apr 21st 2018 at 10:36:14 PM

Upon landing in Asgard, Thor never really has time to find out about the Warriors Three. Or even mourn them if he did.

Heimdall should have told him when they were having their psychic chitchat. It could have added urgency and some pathos. His resolve to penetrate the Devil's Anus would have been even more fervent.

edited 21st Apr '18 10:36:32 PM by Bocaj

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#85094: Apr 21st 2018 at 10:38:08 PM

[up][up]

If badly written somehow means "the actor wanted to finish filming the movie and get out", which to my knowledge isn't even accurate because Hopkins apparently liked filming the movie, then that's bullshit. How is it badly written? It's a great scene and it's given proper dramatic importance, no jokes spoil it at all. And the Heimdall scenes are dramatic. Dramatic does not equal "feel sad", they're suspenseful and they give a sense of dread to the situation, and there's no bad humor to ruin it.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#85095: Apr 21st 2018 at 10:40:55 PM

Heck, they shot Odin's death twice because it was originally set in New York. By Waititi's reports, Hopkins had fun coming back and getting to do things like "play Tom Hiddleston playing Anthony Hopkins".

edited 21st Apr '18 10:41:07 PM by Tuckerscreator

rmctagg09 The Wanderer from Brooklyn, NY (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: I won't say I'm in love
The Wanderer
#85096: Apr 21st 2018 at 10:56:00 PM

There was humor, but I wouldn't call it tone-jarring.

Hugging a Vanillite will give you frostbite.
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#85097: Apr 21st 2018 at 11:24:58 PM

[up][up] Lol, I can imagine that he actually liked doing that. This is exactly the kind of role an actor tends to love.

Punisher286 Since: Jan, 2016
#85099: Apr 22nd 2018 at 5:28:58 AM

Thor not acknowledging the deaths of his friends for centuries was one of the biggest missteps of the film for me. And no "he didn't have time" is not a valid excuse because that's just sloppy writing. It'd have been pathetically easy to fix. Honestly the movie felt like it was in such a hurry to semi-reboot the franchise that it just brushes the old stuff aside as quickly as possible, and as a result I couldn't bring myself to care as much as I should. Even Odin's death did nothing for me, and him dying before he gets a scene with Hela felt really lame as well.

Also the previous films failing to do much of note with Asgard and the Asgardian cast didn't help either. An underdeveloped place burns, and underdeveloped/underused characters die like punks, so what?

And I think that the movie tried to cram two things together that don't really go together. It wants to be essentially a buddy comedy, but also do Ragnarok and it didn't really jell well imo. The Ragnarok stuff was underwhelming because it felt like the B-plot most of the time, and nothing really feels all that serious because of all the comedy.

Really they should have either committed to Ragnarok, or done a buddy comedy, not both. And Hela's "family" connection to Thor ends up being meaningless because they have like three scenes together tops and NEVER ONCE do they feel like family AT ALL!! Don't retcon a backstory like that and then not do anything with it, it's just a waste of potential.

Compare all of this to GOTG Vol. 2, which had it's own comedy issues, and that movie did this all better. The family stuff actually matters, we get scenes between the hero and villain to build up, and then spend like ten minutes (if not more) on Yondu's death and subsequent funeral. And it was fantastic. Meanwhile, Ragnarok is so concerned with giving us yet another Korg joke that Thor doesn't get a minute to mourn his fallen friends of centuries.

Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#85100: Apr 22nd 2018 at 6:03:42 AM

Thor probably mourned their deaths off screen,that's my headcanon anyway

have a listen and have a link to my discord server

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