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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
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    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#84626: Apr 15th 2018 at 4:35:23 PM

The worst he's ever been was when he had that argument with Rocket that nearly got them all killed from what I remember.

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#84627: Apr 15th 2018 at 4:39:17 PM

There was also him agreeing with Ego that Gamora Owed him and accusing her of wanting him to be weak

Although that moment didn't last long because Ego happened

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#84628: Apr 15th 2018 at 4:56:53 PM

My problem with those scenes is that while he is acting entitled towards Gamorra - something the movie acknowledges - Gamorra shows absolutely no regard towards the fact that Peter's just found his long lost family and that might be affecting his perception - something the movie doesn't acknowledge.

She doesn't seem to grasp how tough a sell this is for him - that she's suspicious on the evidence of a very awkward character acting awkward and nothing else - and thus he lashes out and gets annoyed that she's picking at a moment which should be a great day for him.

If the movie had been a bit cleverer it could have developed Gamorra by making Peter have a point (not right, but having a point) - maybe she is a bit suspicious about him having such a run of good luck because her traumatic family life has made her suspicious of happiness. Maybe she's even afraid because the GOTG is the only real family she's ever had since she was a child and she doesn't want it to splinter up.

But the movie makes no attempt to develop Gamorra, just like the first, and in fact she's the one who gains a family member by the end in the form of Nebula, even though that Heel–Face Turn made no sense. She remains the weak link in the GOTG like the first film.

As a result - of Peter not really being that much of a dick and not really growing because the turning point in Ego controlling him happens not through Peter's own moral fibre but because Ego grabs the Villain Ball - the only real true character arcs that actually work are Rocket's and Yondu's, who show real growth throughout the film and have a clear organic start and end point.

edited 15th Apr '18 5:00:28 PM by Sigilbreaker26

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#84629: Apr 15th 2018 at 5:11:30 PM

I would not say the movie makes no attempt to develop Gamora. Her scenes with Nebula are all about confronting her own mistakes she's been unwilling to admit or grow from.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#84630: Apr 15th 2018 at 5:14:10 PM

Yeah, the thing you say the movie didn't do, I thought it was implicit that the movie did do. Honestly, Gamora is probably the second most developed of the Guardians.

Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#84631: Apr 15th 2018 at 5:20:02 PM

The Gamorra/Nebula scenes are massively stupid for a number of reasons - number 1, neither stops to consider the likelihood that had Gamorra lost Thanos might have stripped bits out of her instead, to say nothing of what he would do to her if he realised she threw the fight, number 2, Gamorra cannot be assigned responsibility for what she did as a child in a survival situation, and number 3 Nebula's repeated instances of at best callous and at worst completely psychotic behaviour in both the previous film and this one makes her completely unsympathetic, and number 4 the idea that either of them were ready to save (Gamorra) or spare (Nebula) the other is not supported by what they were doing in the very same fight scene or any previous appearance.

Development isn't development if it's so blatantly inorganic and insincere, and anyway Gamorra doesn't change at all through it nor do we really learn anything about her.

Trying to force culpability on Gamorra for Nebula's rough upbringing - when Gamorra's was similarly if not quite as horrific and she still has the best moral compass of any character throughout either film and Nebula is a raging bull who actively abetted attempted genocide - is laughable.

edited 15th Apr '18 5:22:00 PM by Sigilbreaker26

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#84632: Apr 15th 2018 at 5:26:11 PM

With Doctor Strange I mentioned during the stream that, as a longtime fan of the character, my feelings tend to be that Doctor Strange is one of the most ill suited characters for a origin story, because the appeal of Doctor Strange is that he's this polite, cunning and brilliant gentleman of the occult who's already exhasutively well-versed with all this weird shit and you just enter into his world to witness the sheer madness of the world of magic.

So the appeal of his character is him already being well-versed in magic and the world of magic being well-versed with him. Other famous comic book occultists share similar concepts like John Constantine and Hellboy, both who are usually already established veterans of the occult when we first meet them. It's almost unheard of to introduce Constantine and Hellboy as young people who know jack shit about magic.

The Doctor from Doctor Who is similar, nobody is really interested in seeing him as a young student in Gallifrey. Hell, Sherlock Holmes is similar: we meet him already as a brilliant detective and get on his business.

Doctor Strange, overall, is not a character very suited for origin stories. It's why the Doc Strange film only really picks up in the last third of the film when Strange is adept at magic and we get to see more comic book style-Strange shenanigans like the climax with the reversing time gambit and the "Dormammu i've come to bargain" sequence which are legitimately inventive and exciting but by then we're way too late.

A Doctor Strange film should have been the type of film that starts with Doctor Strange floating across the Sanctum in a lotus stance while sipping tea and asking Wong what eldritch beast emerged from the aether today while Wong casually beheads demonic entities coming out of the fridge while chatting with Strange in a very nonchalant manner.

For me, if I had to make a film about Doctor Strange I'd make Nightmare (think Freddy Krueguer as an eldritch god) the main villain with Doctor Strange already established as a sorcerer. So Strange would wander across the Nightmare realms in very trippy sequences and during those sequences Strange would confront his past as a assholeish surgeon so the character would face his past as the audience learns about it.

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#84633: Apr 15th 2018 at 5:29:57 PM

On Gamora, the movie acknowledges during Gamora's apology that she was a child and thus couldn't have the best of judgement. Nor is it portraying Nebula as completely right in her actions; by the end of the film she is still very clearly messed up and only barely opening up to reconciliation.

MapleSamurai Since: Aug, 2014 Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
#84634: Apr 15th 2018 at 5:38:42 PM

Were it a pre-MCU standalone it'd be a perfectly serviceable movie, and it's closer to So Okay, It's Average than truly bad, but while TDW jumped between terribleness and some genuinely entertaining scenes, this one is utterly skippable wasted potential.
Actually, if it were a pre-MCU standalone, it would probably have been better, because then the pitch by Guillermo del Toro and Neil Gaiman might have actually happened.

Yeah, that almost happened. What Could Have Been, indeed.

edited 15th Apr '18 5:38:59 PM by MapleSamurai

Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#84635: Apr 15th 2018 at 5:40:00 PM

I'm so sad that didn't become a thing.

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#84636: Apr 15th 2018 at 6:26:16 PM

The way to handle Dr Strange might be very similar to Doctor Who

Drop an outsider into his life

I know one of the more recent comics did that with the cool librarian lady

You could still do flashbacks to his training as needed

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#84637: Apr 15th 2018 at 6:33:12 PM

Doctor Strange is very much the magical equivalent to Doctor Who. He usually needs someone to fulfill the role of The Watson. In several classic stories Wong fulfills that role to an extent (though he's acquainted with magic he's not a full-on sorcerer in the comics) while still being fairly out-there to not become boring.

Thinking about it, a Doctor Strange film from Wong's POV showing how he meets and forges a bond with Strange would actually be pretty great.

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#84639: Apr 15th 2018 at 6:49:58 PM

Hey, he took down the Winter Soldier and the Falcon all by himself. Cap's in another "pushing back Thanos" league of his own.

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#84641: Apr 15th 2018 at 6:53:30 PM

To be fair, Cap beat him by fighting smarter rather than harder.

TheAirman Brightness from The vicinity of an area adjacent to a location Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Historians will say we were good friends.
Brightness
#84642: Apr 15th 2018 at 7:09:26 PM

And to be fair to Sam and Bucky, their skill sets are largely centered about making the other person dead. Which is kind of the exact opposite of what they were trying to do at the airport.

Quoth one Tony Stark, to one Peter Parker: “If Cap wanted to lay you out he would have.”

PSN ID: FateSeraph | Switch friendcode: SW-0145-8835-0610 Congratulations! She/They
comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#84644: Apr 15th 2018 at 8:36:05 PM

Oh my god are we doing the power level debates again.

AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#84645: Apr 15th 2018 at 8:38:41 PM

Yeah can we, like, not.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#84646: Apr 15th 2018 at 8:39:52 PM

I imagine they'll flair back up once Thanos & The Black Order enter the mix.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#84647: Apr 15th 2018 at 8:45:37 PM

The answer to all power level fights.

dRoy Professional Writer & Amateur Scholar from Most likely from my study Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: I'm just high on the world
Professional Writer & Amateur Scholar
#84648: Apr 15th 2018 at 8:46:04 PM

I mean, I'd don't care for power level debates (at least, not anymore), but with the Infinity War rolling up? Good luck stopping that.

Continuously reading, studying, and (hopefully) growing.
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#84649: Apr 15th 2018 at 8:48:23 PM

I'm sad Wolverine isn't here cause one of my favorite scenes in the Infinity event was Corvus Glaive impaling him.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."

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