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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#84602: Apr 14th 2018 at 8:08:33 PM

Obviously Lorelei exists in Television-and-Movie-Disconnect Purgatory.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
LordVatek Not really a lord of anything Since: Sep, 2014
Not really a lord of anything
#84603: Apr 14th 2018 at 8:11:09 PM

For all intents and purposes unless they explicitly survived Ragnarok, I'm assuming they're dead.

This song needs more love.
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#84604: Apr 14th 2018 at 8:46:10 PM

I choose to believe Sif was sent on a wild goose chase by Odinloki for the hilarity of her coming back to find Asgard blown up

edited 14th Apr '18 8:54:19 PM by Bocaj

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Nightwire Since: Feb, 2010
#84605: Apr 14th 2018 at 9:46:43 PM

"Huh, I could've sworn Asgard was here before..."

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#84606: Apr 14th 2018 at 10:41:22 PM

I always assumed that Loki didn't exactly exile Sif, but keep sending her on missions so that she wouldn't be around.

Nightwire Since: Feb, 2010
#84607: Apr 14th 2018 at 11:00:57 PM

"I wasn't around for five minutes and you idiot did what?"

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#84608: Apr 14th 2018 at 11:02:18 PM

Funnier possibility:

Loki got into the habit of just. Hiding Asgard when he knew she was coming back. Cause god of mischief gotta mischief.

So she spends an inordinate amount of time in the space where Asgard was waving her arms around trying to find it.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#84609: Apr 15th 2018 at 1:20:26 PM

A few of the tropers and I watched Doctor Strange this weekend, some of us a rewatch, others for the first time.

Doctor Strange is not the first "Tony Stark clone" of the MCU, but it is by far the most blatant. What worsens it from others like Thor or Ant-Man is how little there is to describe the cast apart from their counterparts in other films. I can tell you that Jane is a cosmic scientist passionate about her work. I can tell you that Hope is an uptight but moral businesswoman with family issues. I can't remember anything about Strange's love interest in this film aside that she's a doctor; I don't even remember her name.

I remember having issues with visibility before, but now I can see that this film's color grading is absolutely awful. Nearly every scene is tinted the same shade of brown-gray. It causes problems with editing because it's hard to immediately tell when we've moved to a new location, and it also causes scenes that should be whimsical appear drab and duller than they were intended to be.

Strange himself has troubled character development. His one redeeming quality, that he has a great respect for the sanctity of life, isn't made clear until 2/3rds through the movie. Up until then he didn't seem to care about being a doctor specifically, just about proving his genius. Emphasizing more that he wants to be the best because he cares about saving lives would've been a helpful subtext to his early pride.

Sometimes the film shows that Strange is racist and believes stereotypes about foreigners, but this is never something he's shown growing out of. Quite the opposite, in fact. When Strange starts making pointless jokes at Wong, and Wong lectures him about how anybody who laughed at his jokes before probably did because they worked for Strange, it's seemingly set up for Strange to learn a lesson about respecting others as equals. But instead, the payoff is Wong laughing at one of Strange's jokes at the end, so ultimately Stephen got back on top again without having to change himself.

I'll end with an anecdote about the film when I first saw it in theaters. My town's demographics veer mostly Asian-American, so thus was the audience when I went to see this film. The crowd seemed to be enjoying it okay, reacting at most of the right moments. But, when the gag about "Strange mistakes an older Asian man for the Ancient One" happened, nobody laughed. Dead silence.

However, the joke of "Wong knows and listens to Beyonce" got a laugh from everybody.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#84610: Apr 15th 2018 at 1:26:57 PM

The joke was in the sneak peaks. Ie the joke with the password barely got a laugh in my showing either, and I know that I laughed about it when I saw it the first time, but not anymore when I finally saw it in theatres. So nobody laughing about it doesn't mean anything.

Not that I think that it was a good joke to begin with, too predictable.

wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#84611: Apr 15th 2018 at 1:28:50 PM

Yeah, so I just saw Doctor Strange for the first time, and I hated it.

The movie is incredibly centered around Doctor Strange, to the point that no other character really has actual backstory or motivations, the movie itself is deeply boring, there’s no tension and no stakes, and the grimy lighting messes up most of the enjoyment of the special effects.

Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#84612: Apr 15th 2018 at 1:58:59 PM

@Tuckerscreator- That's a really good description of the movie/character's issues.

I did like the parts of him being broken down and embracing a spiritual life (although as you note, the movie doesn't really follow through with him learning humility), and I also liked his pacifism. And I also liked his appearance in Thor Ragnorak.

I think what would have been an improvement and made him less of a "Tony Stark clone" is to play up him being (pre-accident) cold, arrogant, and kind of mean and having pretty much ruined his relationships with his friends. Because like a big part of Tony's character is his wit/humor and a certain amount of self-deprecation. So one way to have a similar but divergent character would be to tone down or eliminate those aspects and make him a different kind of brilliant jerk. Just like how Quill and Lang have Tony's comic manchild qualities but not really his arrogance. Or competence.

Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#84613: Apr 15th 2018 at 2:03:54 PM

Quill kinda has the arrogance but the difference is he comes across as a lot more boyish, and everyone constantly dumpsters him and refuses to take him seriously.

XJTordecai Watch the seventh wave Since: Jun, 2013
Watch the seventh wave
#84614: Apr 15th 2018 at 2:19:15 PM

Oh man, DS again. Like, I don't...hate this movie (still would gladly watch it over TIH or Ao U), and the Dormammu scene is always a hoot, but in general it reminds me of, say, Dead Space 3. Not terrible but I really gotta lower my critical standards to enjoy it and much of the good I can find I could get from other entries in the franchise. I can't recommend this too much unless you're curious or some sort of MCU completionist or whatever.

On my wave, passing oooooooon
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#84615: Apr 15th 2018 at 2:20:15 PM

Quill is emotionally stunted...the audience basically accepts his manchild personality because they feel for the little boy who got kidnapped at the worst moment in his live.

Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#84616: Apr 15th 2018 at 2:31:23 PM

Never watched Doctor Strange but it sounds like they just wanted to get the film out of the way so they could have their major crossover event so they used formula driven plot they could muster,plus they got a big name star because knew know his appearance alone will attract the fan girls and fanboys

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#84617: Apr 15th 2018 at 2:35:23 PM

I didn't notice any particular issues with the lighting, but now that I think about it Tuckerscreator is right about how forgettable Christine whatsherface is. I also struggle to remember anything about her other than that she's a skilled nurse and empathetic enough to continue showing concern for Strange after their relationship fell through, both of which are rather generic traits, even though she was one of the few characters I remember liking when I watched it.

The abject shallowness of the cast with the exception of Mordo who, being half of a character, is still much more fleshed out than the non-entities that make up the rest, is what brings down the film the most, especially since a more charming cast would've had the potential to make up for the film's numerous other technical mediocrities.

[up] This is how I felt about it after watching it. I really got the sense that this film was an obligation, made purely to jump-start a new franchise and introduce the concept of magic into the MCU. But even then the latter is hampered significantly by the threadbare script and abuse of Ice-Cream Koan Navel-Gazing. They purposely chose to recycle the Tony Stark formula because they know it works and trying to chase after something more original would take too much effort for something they just wanted to get done and over with.

Were it a pre-MCU standalone it'd be a perfectly serviceable movie, and it's closer to So Okay, It's Average than truly bad, but while TDW jumped between terribleness and some genuinely entertaining scenes, this one is utterly skippable wasted potential.

edited 15th Apr '18 2:42:13 PM by AlleyOop

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#84618: Apr 15th 2018 at 2:39:38 PM

I don't think Christine Palmer was meant to be a particularly large role, to be fair. Just a background character to give Strange someone from his past surgical career.

It's just that since she's a(n ex-)love interest, it's assumed she'll be there at all the major scenes, make up with him at the end, ect.

Wong, Mordo, and the Ancient One got kinda shafted though. They're part of the ancient magicks plot but are mostly relegated to action scenes and exposition.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#84619: Apr 15th 2018 at 2:47:38 PM

Seriously though-no one has a motivation or arc except Strange.

Ancient One: refuses to die/prolongs her life. Because she has to protect the world? Okay, why. Why has she not been able to find a successor? Trust issues? What?

Caecilius: wants to have a world without time/death. Why? Did he lose someone? Is he scared of dying? Why was he broken/seeking wisdom/power? What?

Mordo: is super rigid/strict. Hates breaking rules. Why? There’s one vague reference to him being a rule breaker as a kid- so what? Why is he so rigid? What broke him and sent him to Kamar Taj? Why is breaking rules to save the world such a problem?

Wong: How long has he been at Kamar Taj? How did he get there? If he’s so dedicated to the library, why can Strange just steal books while Wong looks around like a punk? What’s his motivation?

Christine: Why is she a doctor? Why did she put up with Strange? What does she want? Who is she?

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#84620: Apr 15th 2018 at 3:34:17 PM

I believe Kaecillius is explicitly stated to have lost his whole family, or something like that.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#84621: Apr 15th 2018 at 3:35:54 PM

I think it's a fine movie but the problem is that I never was really sold on Stephen as the Sorcerer Supreme.

Is there any reason the guy who joined a week early should be the head of the group now?

I also find the argument of the bad guy compelling as well as the ancient one.

Is there a reason the Ancient One SHOULD step down?/die?

edited 15th Apr '18 3:37:39 PM by CharlesPhipps

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#84622: Apr 15th 2018 at 3:38:47 PM

I think there's supposed to be a lengthy timeskip in there amidst the training montage, but the film doesn't convey it very well.

He wasn't made the new leader of Kamar-Taj or anything like that, though. Just assigned to the NYC sanctum since its previous sentinel was stabbed by Kaecilius. Do they actually use the title "Sorceror Supreme" at any point in the film? It's been a while, I forget.

edited 15th Apr '18 3:40:29 PM by Anomalocaris20

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
Falrinn Since: Dec, 2014
#84623: Apr 15th 2018 at 4:16:23 PM

[up] Wong outright states that there is no longer a Sorcerer Supreme in his final dialogue with Strange.

So while Doctor Strange may one day become Sorcerer Supreme, for now he's just managing the New York Sanctum and it's likely that Wong is at least interim leader at Kamer-Taj.

Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#84624: Apr 15th 2018 at 4:24:38 PM

Peter Quill is slightly immature but he's basically good-hearted, which is why we put up with him. Or to use his own words - he's not 100% a dick.

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#84625: Apr 15th 2018 at 4:29:10 PM

He gets as high as 90% sometimes though

Forever liveblogging the Avengers

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