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Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM
I think the Ultimate Universe can be blamed for the wife and kids. From the beginning, Barton's been pretty firmly the Ultimate Hawkeye version: a cool and collected S.H.I.E.L.D. agent who has his life together, is happily married, and has a totally bland personality.
Phase I borrowed extensively from the Ultimate Universe. Which, like...you should really use Ultimate Universe stuff sparingly. Because the Ultimate Universe is godawful. The same universe features Hawkeye's family being murdered by the Black Widow and him tearing his fingernails out to use as deadly projectiles, while Widow in turn is killed by being married to Tony Stark - because he implanted a deadly killswitch in her brain when they wed.
edited 29th Mar '18 11:58:22 AM by TobiasDrake
My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.Which isn't at all what fans of the character wanted to see. Fans of the character love Hawkeye for being the Peter Parker of the Avengers: a lovable loser who's talented enough to hang with gods and monsters, struggles to try and be endearing to the womenfolk, and can't go five seconds without popping a hilarious quip.
Get Hawkeye and Spider-Man in a room together and the quip-off is amazing. Add in Deadpool and you will die laughing.
edited 29th Mar '18 12:00:36 PM by TobiasDrake
My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.I also liked him having a family in Ao U. The handling of his character in the film is one of the better things about it.
My thought on grungy loser actual garbage fire Hawkeye is that it works in the comics but not necessarily so well in the movies.
The Avengers are stocked full of people who don't have their shit together. ... Like every single one of them basically. Hawkeye is so much the normal guy (also government assassin) that he's the only one who has his personal life squared.
Also, the Fraction comic came out after the first Avengers movie. There was nothing stopping them from taking inspiration for Age of Ultron except it might inadvertently imply that Clint is actual garbage fire because of the mind control episode. We already had that with Selvig and it was kind of uncomfortable.
Forever liveblogging the AvengersI love MCU Hawkeye being the Avenger's Team Dad, and I think it's a role that suits him perfectly.
I liked that AOU had him reference his time being mind-controlled, but I wish Whedon had done more with it. Instead of psychically detecting Wanda and pre-emptively nailing her because he's been under the influence before, it would have been cooler if he actively resisted her influence.
The first Avengers film had a deleted scene that implies that Stark can resist the Scepter's effects because of his prior experience with mind-altering substances. His tolerance requires harder shit than Loki.
Doing something like that with Barton would have been great. Wanda catches him in her influence, he starts to hallucinate like the others, and then he whips around and nails her, shaking off the effect. Because he's been through this before and can recognize the effect.
edited 29th Mar '18 12:13:49 PM by TobiasDrake
My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.Preach it brother.
I think Black Widow put it best in Iron Man 2: they need Iron Man, but Tony Stark should stay the fuck away from all things everywhere.
I mean, I don't even care that Ultron wasn't totally his fault anymore. I just love taking the piss out of him because it's fun to rip on someone who you know no one will defend.
One Strip! One Strip!Also the part about Loki being irrational and his plan being insane seems to me to be because Loki is suffering from delusions of grandeur — he thinks he's just that good that he can win it all despite the odds against him. His madness is believing that he's "burdened with glorious purpose", and he will inevitably win because he deserves to rule over other, lesser people (ie, everyone). This is why he tries to stop the Hulk with a villainous rant (and gets smashed for his trouble). It's also exactly why trading away a Cosmic Keystone instead of trying to use it himself for something much bigger than a single planet doesn't really fly.
Oh, something I forgot to mention in my initial post: Black Widow pulling a Bat Deduction that Loki's plan was to cause a Hulk rampage seemingly based entirely on Loki using the word "monster" was extremely silly.
You know, I'm kind of wondering to what extent some character issues have to do with writers not being sure whether the characters are supposed to be like their 616 or Ultimate versions/how to split the difference, especially because as I understand it, the costumes and some plot elements from The Avengers are taken from the Ultimate comics.
Like that's a really good point about how Hawkeye in Thor and The Avenges is this amoral professional. It fits with something I commented about how audiences took his relationship as romantic, because they thought he was a (more "realistic") version of 616!Hawkeye, and it wasn't until AOU that he was more clearly the Ultimate!Hawkeye. Although, I see some vestiges of 616 in his interest in reforming villains (i.e. Wanda and Pietro) and how he snarks at Tony in Civil War.
And besides my (and other people's) criticisms of Whedon "hating Steve", or more accurately, having issues writing characters who are The Cape without making them sticks-in-the-mud and tearing them down, I wonder how much can be explained by Whedon thinking that Steve was the rather unpleasant Ultimate!Cap.
And kind of connected to the above, although obviously Whedon is known for World of Snark, and there have been points in 616 where all of the Avengers hated each other, but it would certainly explain a lot if the Ultimate verse influenced the decision to play up the Avengers as all being very dysfunctional people who were constantly bickering.
Lastly, although I like what The Avengers (and AOU and Thor Ragnarok) have done with the Hulk in terms of making Banner an interesting and likable character and having it generally be a bad thing when he Hulks-out, it's quite easy to see the Hulk's presentation in The Avengers as a thankfully toned down version of the cannibalistic Ultimate!Hulk.
Reminder that Whedon wrote part of The First Avenger. You can feel he may have dragged on Cap a little too hard (I don’t see it, particularly in things like Cap’s belief in God being treated with respect) but his involvement on Steve was since the beginning, not merely when The Avengers’s script began.
Avengers Cap is just a little unperceptive. Ultimate Cap is a through and through racist.
edited 29th Mar '18 2:02:55 PM by Tuckerscreator
Everyone was a dick in the Ultimates though.
Also the way that Cap's jackassery manifested made no damn sense sometimes. Like his crack about the French.
edited 29th Mar '18 2:38:25 PM by Bocaj
Forever liveblogging the AvengersYeah, neocon Cap isn’t a valid/real interpretation of Steve. Please see this historical analysis.
Well, Hawkeye's family kills a lot of Hawkeye's comic history.
No Mockingbird No successful but BAD at it ladies man
And so on.
However, it nicely makes Black Widow and him a Heterosexual Life-Partner situation and married superheroes EXISTING is AMAZING!
Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.Yeah, history doesn't move in one direction of conservative to more liberal.
I use the Lois Lane example where no one particularly thought there was anything weird about an intrepid female reporter in the 1930s or 40s but she was an idiot manchaser in the 50s and 60s.
Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.Huh. Didn't know Whedon was involved in First Avenger. That definitely changes my preconceptions.
Also, I should mention that I recognize that the comparison between Whedon!Cap and Ultimate!Cap is rather tenuous (besides the powers and costume), because my complaint with Whedon's version is that he's used as this Straw Liberal Straw Loser who is always the butt of the joke (generally by Tony). Whereas Ultimate!Cap is like the opposite stereotype, a jingoistic Straw Conservative.
I think the greatest commonality would be that Whedon leans a bit more on Steve being old-fashioned, although at least in The Avengers that's pretty easy to gloss as Steve being recently defrosted as compared with Winter Soldier and later on.
In Thor Dark World, Selvig's mental illness post-mind control is played for laughs in an uncomfortable way. That's all.
Forever liveblogging the Avengers

I actually prefer it that their conflict is to a large part about different approaches to live which were popular at different times.
Also the language issue didn't really bother me at all. Aren't as guardians speak some sort of "everyone can understand me" language anyway? Plus most Germans indeed speak at the very least basic English. We tend to get taught in school for at least around age 10 to 14 most even longer