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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
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    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#83601: Mar 26th 2018 at 3:07:55 PM

They even look reptilian, and the whole "lizard people control the government" thing is actually a dog-whistle for "Jews control the government".

edited 26th Mar '18 3:08:11 PM by PushoverMediaCritic

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#83602: Mar 26th 2018 at 3:07:57 PM

[up][up] Doubtful. No adaptation of the Skrulls has ever saw the need to even mention that aspect of their backstory, so it's unlikely Marvel suddenly start seeing it as a problem to make or break the characters now.

edited 26th Mar '18 3:10:44 PM by KnownUnknown

wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#83603: Mar 26th 2018 at 3:09:54 PM

Yeah, let’s go with the Skrulls being the Kree’s long-term enemies. Think like Britain and France during the medieval period. No enslavement narrative, please God.

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#83604: Mar 26th 2018 at 3:10:40 PM

  • puts on Marvel history hat*

Well, the Skrulls in the comics actually ARE based on the tinfoil conspiracy hat theory of shapeshifting lizard people. However, the thing about Marvel is they are fully aware it's a joke.

Also, the Skrulls used to be the most advanced and beloved race in the galaxy who went around visiting other planets to help them be uplifted by sharing their technology as well as wisdom. Then they came to the Kree who, I shit you not, did the exact same scene from Star Trek Enterprise's Mirror Universe to butcher everyone onboard then steal their technology so they could wage a 10,000 year war against them—turning the Skrulls from peaceniks to monsters.

The idea being that, yes, the Kree who look more like us (and included "Pink Kree" for a given value of us—not smart Marvel) then were the aggressors as well as the objectively worse race.

Note the Skrulls have traditionally had more heroic members than the Kree until the Secret Invasion.

edited 26th Mar '18 3:11:50 PM by CharlesPhipps

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
TommyFresh Since: Aug, 2013
#83605: Mar 26th 2018 at 3:12:56 PM

Yeah, if they just leave out that aspect of their backstory it should be fine. Not that the Skrulls have to be totally one-dimensional or unsympathetic, but the whole former slave aspect would really bring some Unfortunate Implications.

Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#83606: Mar 26th 2018 at 3:13:43 PM

Cree<Kree

Marvel you lazy fucks you literally changed just one letter!

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#83607: Mar 26th 2018 at 3:14:10 PM

[up][up][up]Okay, that's a bit relieving.

edited 26th Mar '18 3:14:39 PM by PushoverMediaCritic

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#83608: Mar 26th 2018 at 3:14:42 PM

If there's one thing I want them to keep, it's that idea. The Skrulls can and should be bad (imo, the whole thing should be along the lines of how Justice League interpreted the Thanagairans vs the Gordanians: Evil vs. Evil, even if they think they have good reasons) but the idea that a race of inhuman monsters was Driven to Villainy by the even-worse visually relateable humanoids is something mainstream Sci-Fi could use more of.

Especially since, if they play it safe as they often do, Marvel will just default of having the inhuman Skrulls, who so far have no major characters, be the unambiguous villains and the Kree be Knight Templar or something.

edited 26th Mar '18 3:15:21 PM by KnownUnknown

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#83609: Mar 26th 2018 at 3:15:36 PM

I fully expect it to go like this:

  • Carol Danvers finds out about the Skrulls
  • Captain Marvel gets superpowers from the Kree
  • Carol Danvers fights the Skrulls
  • Carol and the Kree are friends...until they reveal they will now occupy Earth
  • Carol sabotages the Kree's invasion
  • Carol gets rocketed forth 30 years in the future

Mostly because the MCU loves political commentary and Earth being a pinball between larger more advanced powers is a good metaphor.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#83610: Mar 26th 2018 at 4:27:57 PM

The Skrulls are right in the tradition of pod people. So absolutely Cold War xenophobia and paranoia

The best part of the origins of the Kree are that the reason they snapped and killed the Skrulls is they were pissed at being outdone by some ambulatory trees

They weren't even going to kill the Skrulls until they got upset over the wanton tree slaughter

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#83611: Mar 26th 2018 at 4:45:20 PM

These last pages remind me of how I noticed while watching Doctor Who that the Zygons were basically Skrulls and how the series recognized some of the Unfortunate Implications and had the ones who want to conquer Earth be an extremist minority and then that group moderate and decide to join the others and peacefully assimilate by remaining in human forms.

I say some of the Unfortunate Implications because while it dowplays/averts the alien lizardmen aspects that are parallel to/overlap with right wing Jewish conspiracy theories, it seems reasonably clear that they are supposed to be a metaphor for Muslim immigration to England. And so while it's nice that it treats extremists as a a minority and then treats those extremists as sympathetic/redeemable, it still has a metaphor about immigrants being sleeper agents, and has some creepy but probably unintentional implications of the Islamphobic Taqiya accusation, since Zykons are butt ugly in their true forms and are only able to assimilate/avoid engaging in/being subject to violence by remaining permanently shape-shifted.

So yeah, some definite issues with this approach too. But I give a lot of props for totally avoiding the kind of Guilt-Free Extermination War plotline that would be likely in another work.

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#83612: Mar 26th 2018 at 4:47:14 PM

Mind you, sometimes a Skrull is just a Skrull.

And they were created by....Jewish creators.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#83613: Mar 26th 2018 at 5:26:23 PM

Since I know that some Skrull characters have been sympathetic in the comics, I'd like the movie to go that route and not have them as Always Chaotic Evil. Although for what it's worth, I am kind of arguing for the Kree being pretty Always Chaotic Evil, other than Mar-vell himself.

There are two things l'd really like to see, both involving Nick Fury:

First, him saying a line about having had it with those Skrulls on a plane.

Second, The Stinger, where Fury takes off his eyepatch (possibly the result of an injury during the movie) and reveals a healed eye, which then turns yellow and reptillian before he shapeshifts into his true, Skrull form.

Alternatively, you could reveal Coulson to have been a Skrull in connection with showing Fury faking his death in The Avengers, which would be a hilariously meanspirited way of decanonizing Agents of Shield.

But I really like the Fury reveal, because since I've watched anime, I believe that you don't give a character an eyepatch if they aren't going to take it off and do something cool.

edited 26th Mar '18 5:28:59 PM by Hodor2

Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#83614: Mar 26th 2018 at 5:32:15 PM

But Fury takes out his eyepatch during winter soldier and we see his eye is a regular wounded eye.

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#83615: Mar 26th 2018 at 5:37:05 PM

Eh. I think you can still do a reveal that's earlier in-universe, later out-of-universe, because the implication would be that Skrull!Fury shape-shifted his eye to look like a normal, wounded eye.

That being said, I would wonder how if Fury was a Skrull, he wouldn't have shifted back into his true form after being seriously injured in Winter Soldier. Ditto Coulson in The Avengers.

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#83616: Mar 26th 2018 at 5:40:56 PM

I have to say, Coulson showing up in Captain Marvel is a very clever way of getting him in a movie again without opening the can of worms from his resurrection. I'm surprised I hadn't considered it before.

Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#83617: Mar 26th 2018 at 5:42:13 PM

It has been discussed every now and then that Maria Hill would be the best person for a Skrull reveal. She can smoothly be said to have been a skrull without much contradiction. Other than her, Hawkeye is somewhat plausible.

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#83618: Mar 26th 2018 at 5:43:02 PM

Hawkeye is too ordinary

Clearly Peter Parker is a skrull!

edited 26th Mar '18 5:43:11 PM by Ultimatum

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#83619: Mar 26th 2018 at 5:43:53 PM

Never mind.

edited 26th Mar '18 5:46:10 PM by KnownUnknown

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#83620: Mar 26th 2018 at 5:45:29 PM

Heh. So in other words, the reason this version of Hill is nicer is because she's a skrull?

That would be typical.evil grin

One Strip! One Strip!
Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#83621: Mar 26th 2018 at 5:50:18 PM

Yeah. That's something I've also suggested. Reveal that the real Maria Hill (imprisoned in a Skrull ship somewhere) is the unlikable character from the comics and the quirky and likable one we've known all along is a Skrull.

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#83622: Mar 26th 2018 at 6:23:18 PM

I think Fury revealing he put his injured retina in the systems as a secret backdoor is a sufficiently cool eyepatch reveal

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#83623: Mar 26th 2018 at 7:39:20 PM

Why would a Skrull save Captain America’s life and help take down HYDRA?

Nightwire Since: Feb, 2010
#83624: Mar 26th 2018 at 8:39:20 PM

The read Mandarin is a Skrull.

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#83625: Mar 26th 2018 at 10:53:20 PM

[up][up]That's really the problem with the vast majority of secret infiltration / Evil All Along reveals. There's usually far too many moments that make no sense if you know a heroic character was evil the entire time and had no reason to do half the things they did.


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