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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
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    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#83576: Mar 26th 2018 at 1:54:37 PM

I was not aware of this.

Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#83577: Mar 26th 2018 at 1:55:16 PM

I'm kinda hoping we do see something resembling the Kree vs Skrull conflict

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PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#83578: Mar 26th 2018 at 2:03:14 PM

Given Mar-Vell and Ronan's presence, I'm expecting Kree vs Skrulls to be a major part of the film.

Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#83579: Mar 26th 2018 at 2:04:00 PM

All those movies (excluding Iron Man 3 because that never happened) have something ranging from competent to pretty great screenwriting. TIH doesn't bother to establish any of its characters except maybe Blonsky, leaving everyone as a cardboard cutout you don't care about. The plot of TIH is nonsensical (Ross makes so many military blunders it's a minor wonder he hasn't been stripped off his rank by now) and there's basically no dramatic stakes here.

Basically this.

No dramatic stakes? Blonsky pulverized an entire town while high on life and wouldn't have stopped if Hulk didn't choke him out. Norton!Banner's decision to jump out of a plane and either transform and save the day, or rid the world of one of its two raging green monsters was tragic and heartfelt. As inconsequential as TIH might be note at least I remember who the villain was and there were enough exciting moments to justify it's existence. Thor The Dark World and Iron Man 2 can't say the same.

Norton Banner is as dull as dishwater. The movie doesn't properly establish him at all and he's completely bland and uninteresting (seriously Norton feels like he's barely acting the whole time), so I really couldn't care less what happens to him. His whole character and romance with Betty is completely and utterly weightless. Like I said, all the characters except Blonksy are either poorly established, uninteresting, unlikable, or some combination of the three. We've already made multiple jokes about how Betty's emotional state in the film varies between "crying" and "nearly crying" for most of it.

I haven't seen Dark World, but while Iron Man 2 isn't a great movie it has multiple scenes that are quite well-done and ideas that are at least interesting. Its main problem is it wastes Vanko after giving him a great introduction and meanders with too many plot threads that don't really help the story and are more about setting up the larger MCU.

TIH meanwhile has pretty much nothing remotely worthwhile or interesting about it at all. The same dullness and mediocrity of its screenwriting applies to pretty much every other part of the production. It's a film completely devoid of any real personality or artistry, just a dour action movie that's soul-crushingly generic and boring.

I'll never agree with anyone that puts the Ang Lee Hulk movie below it because while very flawed, that film at least had some real effort and cool ideas put into it, not to mention literally every single character is better-established and much easier to care about.

One billion offscreen lives that you've never heard of and have no reason to care about do not carry even half the narrative weight of a single named, developed, and interesting character. That's why having your villain threaten to blow up the world is overrated. Audiences don't care about the world. They care about the hero and his friends.

Yep. This is an even bigger problem in videogames in my opinion. Having a save the world premise isn't inherently wrong but it's used so often I kind of see it as a lazy shorthand a lot of the time because it's assumed that it's a big enough event that the audience will care about it "by default", as opposed to the harder task of actually taking the trouble to develop a complex and interesting character and creating a personal journey for them that the audience will be invested.

edited 26th Mar '18 2:10:05 PM by Draghinazzo

Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#83580: Mar 26th 2018 at 2:06:30 PM

Ang Lee's Hulk had that weird ending with the Jellyfish that makes think they ran out ideas so inserted a bunch of random imagery thats's meant to be symbolic of something

edited 26th Mar '18 2:07:20 PM by Ultimatum

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PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#83581: Mar 26th 2018 at 2:07:02 PM

There are at least two fantastic scenes in The Dark World. Frigga's funeral and Thor going to Loki after Frigga's death. It's not a great film, but there's a couple of very strong parts in it.

TheMageofFire Since: May, 2012
#83582: Mar 26th 2018 at 2:11:36 PM

Oh sweet, Coulson's back in the movies. Sure, its a prequel, but that's still nice and all.

Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#83583: Mar 26th 2018 at 2:12:35 PM

rip Coulson you will be avenged

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Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#83584: Mar 26th 2018 at 2:14:56 PM

While I don't want Carol to come off as stupid/incompetent in her own film, I think you could have some nice Dramatic Irony in her thinking of the Kree as good guys, especially when the audience knows that Ronan is/will become a genocidal terrorist. Because at face value, the Skree are all about bringing justice and are good-looking Human Aliens, whereas the Skrull are seemingly murderous conquerors and are pretty ugly when not shapeshifted.

So, you'd have Carol on the Kree side for most of the film, until she finds out they genocided the Skrulls and are megalomaniacal galactic conquerors.

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#83585: Mar 26th 2018 at 2:16:27 PM

Well, that's sadly not going to happen without recasting as Hugo Weaving basically said it was the worst acting experience of his life. I'm not sure why but he's said no to any return.

He did not say anything of the sort. Weaving said he liked playing the Skull but viewed the deal Marvel gave him as "pretty basic stuff", followed by saying he had no idea if he'd be in the other films.

Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#83586: Mar 26th 2018 at 2:18:56 PM

Having seen TFA again recently I kind of agree. I thought Weaving was only alright as Red Skull, but then again it wasn't necessarily a meaty role or anything so I can understand him being kinda mixed on it.

Hellbore Since: Dec, 2010
#83587: Mar 26th 2018 at 2:20:54 PM

IIRC it was the makeup that he hated, nothing about Marvel or the role specifically, though he has said he's done with big Hollywood blockbusters in general

MegaJ Since: Oct, 2009
#83588: Mar 26th 2018 at 2:22:16 PM

Prayer circle they get Ming Na to do a cameo in Captain Marvel with Coulson. She basically already looks the same.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#83589: Mar 26th 2018 at 2:33:00 PM

In the end, though, Carol will be fighting the Skrulls. I don't know if it'd be for the best for a white woman to be fighting a species of people who used to be slaves by using the powers of the species who enslaved them. Maybe leave that part of the backstory out of the movie.

edited 26th Mar '18 2:33:58 PM by PushoverMediaCritic

AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#83590: Mar 26th 2018 at 2:37:15 PM

I used to kind of like Weaving as Red Skull but after rewatching TFA, I'd rank him a bit lower as a villain. He's a bit hammy but his problem is that he's not terrifying enough. He gets some alright moments but compared to Stane in Iron Man and Loki in Thor (solely Thor, not the ones after) he's flatter and less inspired. I'm annoyed with how people have slagged on Stane as of late because he's genuinely threatening and Bridges gives a great performance to sell the character, plus he actually ties into the themes of the film unlike Vanko. Loki meanwhile, in the context of the first Thor, is even better, and he kind of has his own arc going on in contrast to Thor's. Red Skull is just kinda meh by comparison. Better than Vanko (a good idea wasted by poor execution and a script in dire need of edits) and Blonsky (the only interesting part in an otherwise abysmal film).

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#83591: Mar 26th 2018 at 2:40:09 PM

Yeah, that was part of my initial disappointment with him. I'd heard comics Red Skull was quite sinister and frightening so my expectations weren't really met there. He was honestly scarier as Agent Smith in the Matrix IMO.

AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#83592: Mar 26th 2018 at 2:41:17 PM

Also, gonna add, I'm pretty sure Weaving had a worse time with the Transformers movies than he did with TFA.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
LordVatek Not really a lord of anything Since: Sep, 2014
Not really a lord of anything
#83593: Mar 26th 2018 at 2:53:45 PM

I kept reading TFA as The Force Awakens and was very confused.

edited 26th Mar '18 2:53:54 PM by LordVatek

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Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#83595: Mar 26th 2018 at 2:54:49 PM

which is why acronyms suck

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PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#83596: Mar 26th 2018 at 2:55:01 PM

I keep reading it like that. It's why I refer to the first Captain America as just "Captain America".

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#83597: Mar 26th 2018 at 3:03:23 PM

Aw hell, I just realized that the Skrull's, who used to be slaves, Modus Operandi is to invade other planets, replace the natives and replicate them to blend in, and take over the world. Are we ABSOLUTELY SURE that the Skrulls aren't a metaphor for crazy far right conspiracy theories about minorities taking over the government?

wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#83598: Mar 26th 2018 at 3:04:29 PM

… Well, there’s a really, really, really unfortunate implication I never noticed before. I really really hope they do some adjusting so that isn’t the story, because yikes.

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#83599: Mar 26th 2018 at 3:06:10 PM

MCU Red Skull was reimagined to be a bit more "WW 2-era pulp serial"-esque, a la the movie's general Genre Throwback theme. While imo he really works as an example of that kind of villain (he would've fit right in with the Star Wars original trilogy, which referenced much of the same tone), it does admittedly cut him off from a lot of the comics' "basically the spawn of the devil" terrifying menace.

edited 26th Mar '18 3:06:37 PM by KnownUnknown

Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#83600: Mar 26th 2018 at 3:06:12 PM

Maybe that's why no Skrulls have appeared yet,they know about that aspect and are playing it safe

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