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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#83526: Mar 24th 2018 at 5:56:25 PM

I wonder who else dies,other then Vison

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#83527: Mar 24th 2018 at 6:11:03 PM

Okay so I just finished watching Thor 1 with a bunch of tropers and I have to say, as someone who's routinely trashed Thor for years on this forum, the film has aged surprisingly well and is better than I gave it credit for.

I don't think it's as good as Iron Man 1, and it does it have its flaws: the earth scenes are indeed not as interesting as the Asgard stuff, Thor's character arc is a bit rushed, and Jane doesn't do THAT much all things considered. But Hemsworth's acting really does a lot to sell things, and even though it's a similar arc to Tony's in IM 1, it's still relatively decent all things considered. Even the earth scenes weren't anywhere near as long, tedious and boring as I remembered. Actually I think there's much more Asgard in this film than I remembered, which is nice, since those scenes are the best in the film.

Overall a pretty ok movie and I probably won't rag on it so much anymore when the putrid mediocrity of TIH exists.

AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#83528: Mar 24th 2018 at 6:11:50 PM

The Incredible Hulk makes all MCU movies look better by comparison.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#83529: Mar 24th 2018 at 6:12:50 PM

A whole scene.

edited 24th Mar '18 7:24:33 PM by comicwriter

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#83530: Mar 24th 2018 at 10:53:17 PM

Vision's "we are out of time" made me think of Zola's line in The Winter Soldier.

ComicFan Since: Sep, 2016
#83531: Mar 25th 2018 at 10:10:26 AM

Black Panther is now the highest grossing solo superhero movie[1]

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
Soble Since: Dec, 2013
#83533: Mar 25th 2018 at 10:23:26 AM

Wonder Woman is lower on that list than I expected.

I'M MR. MEESEEKS, LOOK AT ME!
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#83534: Mar 25th 2018 at 10:26:50 AM

So, it didn't quite topple either of the Avengers films, but it did better than anything else in the MCU. Damn good shit.

I hate that "All Time Worldwide Adjusted for Inflation" isn't an option on that website.

edited 25th Mar '18 10:33:08 AM by PushoverMediaCritic

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#83535: Mar 25th 2018 at 10:41:35 AM

[up][up]Wonder Woman did very good numbers by solo movie standards, and especially in the face of the bullshit stigma that female superhero movies don't sell. But in the grand scheme of things 823 million is not that huge.

If it weren't part of a franchise with such a horrendous reputation, I suspect Wonder Woman would've done better.

Punisher286 Since: Jan, 2016
#83536: Mar 25th 2018 at 10:43:05 AM

^It'll be interesting to see how well her sequel film does now.

MadSkillz Destroyer of Worlds Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: I only want you gone
Destroyer of Worlds
#83537: Mar 25th 2018 at 11:10:01 AM

Hard to say. Depends on the quality and if the novelty's worn off by then.

If it's the same quality as WW and it has worn off then I'd say a good deal worse.

wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#83538: Mar 25th 2018 at 11:28:13 AM

Trying to correct numbers for inflation is really just sort of pointless before 1970 or so. The media landscape was completely different back in the 30s and 40s, given that movie theaters were different, movies weren’t available after their theatrical run on TV or video yet, etc.

edited 25th Mar '18 11:28:47 AM by wisewillow

Galadriel Since: Feb, 2015
#83539: Mar 25th 2018 at 12:05:32 PM

You can't adjust worldwide numbers for inflation because inflation happens at different rates in every country. And even if you could, it wouldn't be meaningful because of the massive growth in non-US markets (especially China) over the past couple decades.

I also agree that even domestically, trying to compare the 1940s to the present isn't useful, but inflation-adjustment of domestic numbers is great for getting a sense of how the grosses of more-recent movies compare to each other. For example, if you don't adjust for inflation, Black Panter now has the highest domestic gross of any superhero movie, and the 5th-highest domestic gross of all time. But if you do adjust for inflation then it's 4th-highest superhero movie domestically, behind The Avengers ($706 million), The Dark Knight ($681 million) and Spider-Man ($638 million) - though it should pass Spider-Man by next weekend.

edited 25th Mar '18 12:08:55 PM by Galadriel

wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#83540: Mar 25th 2018 at 1:51:44 PM

Adjusting for inflation definitely makes sense, if you stick with a limited geographic market, and you’re within the last couple of decades. It just gets sort of pointless when you go back earlier than 1970 or so.

Galadriel Since: Feb, 2015
#83541: Mar 25th 2018 at 3:22:46 PM

Using those standards: Black Panther is currently the 26th-highest-grossing movie domestically released since 1970. The Avengers is the 19th-highest.

It does help add a little perspective.

(Of the top 10 movies since 1970, 3 are by Spielberg, 3 are by George Lucas, and 2 are by James Cameron, which is a pretty striking indication of who the most successful directors of the last several decades were.)

wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#83542: Mar 25th 2018 at 3:25:10 PM

Out of curiosity, what other factors are there to consider? Did movies stay in theaters for the same amount of time in the 1970s and 80s? How many films at one time would each theater tend to have showing simultaneously then versus now? I never really thought about it before.

KJMackley Since: Jan, 2001
#83543: Mar 25th 2018 at 4:19:34 PM

There are a number of different factors to take into account. Ticket prices are different, they don't always match inflation perfectly. The sheer population of the world has increased, along with the number of theaters. The average multiplex today offers 2-3 different versions of the same movie (IMAX, Dolby, 3D, etc), anything beyond the standard showing tends to be an extra 3 dollars per ticket. Re-releases in the past had a tendency to dramatically increase their prior box office total, because before home video really took off in the 80's a re-release was the best way to see the movie in its entirety. And on top of all that, movies themselves cost more to make. Going by pure inflation, the original Star Wars cost about 11 million, 45 million in 2018 dollars, which would be the budget of a big name romantic comedy today. Think about that when considering that, before inflation, Star Wars made 475 million domestically.

Wonder Woman's success was primarily in longevity, it debuted at a moderate opening weekend (between Ant Man and Iron Man) but proceeded to do four times its opening weekend. The average is about half that.

edited 25th Mar '18 4:20:53 PM by KJMackley

Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#83544: Mar 25th 2018 at 7:07:37 PM

The troper group I'm watching stuff with just finished Avengers.

I didn't care for the film the first time, and overall I'd still say it's inferior to most of the solo outings that preceeded it, but I found some more stuff to appreciate in it this time such as Tony's save and the third act as a whole.

Honestly, Phase 1 in general is pretty alright. Like I said earlier, TIH is the only real stinker. IM 2 and Avengers have some noticeable flaws but they're not horrible or anything.

Soble Since: Dec, 2013
#83545: Mar 26th 2018 at 5:21:06 AM

Might I ask what is wrong with TIH? It's not a miracle of screen-writing and I'm not fond of Hulk's design, but I'd still rank it over Iron Man 2, 3, and probably Thor Ragnarok.

I'M MR. MEESEEKS, LOOK AT ME!
Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#83546: Mar 26th 2018 at 5:24:26 AM

All those movies (excluding Iron Man 3 because that never happened) have something ranging from competent to pretty great screenwriting. TIH doesn't bother to establish any of its characters except maybe Blonsky, leaving everyone as a cardboard cutout you don't care about. The plot of TIH is nonsensical (Ross makes so many military blunders it's a minor wonder he hasn't been stripped off his rank by now) and there's basically no dramatic stakes here.

edited 26th Mar '18 5:25:05 AM by Gaon

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
Soble Since: Dec, 2013
#83547: Mar 26th 2018 at 6:04:12 AM

I misspoke, I meant Thor The Dark World, not Thor Ragnarok. The former is so forgettable I replaced it in my mind with its far more entertaining sequel.

I won't talk about that movie with RDJ playing a narcissistic billionaire for the third time if you won't.

No dramatic stakes? Blonsky pulverized an entire town while high on life and wouldn't have stopped if Hulk didn't choke him out. Norton!Banner's decision to jump out of a plane and either transform and save the day, or rid the world of one of its two raging green monsters was tragic and heartfelt.

As inconsequential as TIH might be note  at least I remember who the villain was and there were enough exciting moments to justify it's existence. Thor The Dark World and Iron Man 2 can't say the same.

edited 26th Mar '18 6:17:19 AM by Soble

I'M MR. MEESEEKS, LOOK AT ME!
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#83548: Mar 26th 2018 at 7:40:19 AM

Pulverizing a town only matters if it affects the characters we care about. Beyond that, it's just empty spectacle.

One billion offscreen lives that you've never heard of and have no reason to care about do not carry even half the narrative weight of a single named, developed, and interesting character. That's why having your villain threaten to blow up the world is overrated. Audiences don't care about the world. They care about the hero and his friends.

You want to know how little anyone cares about Blonsky smashing Harlem? Even Luke Cage never mentions it. It does not come up. Two white guys turned into giant green rage monsters and used Harlem and its people as a smashing grounds for a fight that had nothing to do with the community, and years later, it doesn't even warrant a Continuity Nod.

The Avengers briefly notes that the Hulk broke Harlem and then it never comes up again.

edited 26th Mar '18 7:44:58 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#83549: Mar 26th 2018 at 8:18:39 AM

Funny, I actually did that exact line in my book.

I had the Anti-Hero explain there's no point threatening the universe as threatening the planet, the city, the town, or even a local friend of the hero all had the same emotional stakes.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#83550: Mar 26th 2018 at 8:19:29 AM

Hulk made Harlem shake

probably

have a listen and have a link to my discord server

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