TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

Marvel Cinematic Universe

Go To

Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#83351: Mar 22nd 2018 at 10:48:00 AM

Falcon is basically a semi-sidekick for Cap, and as Nightwing Dick is a member of the marvel family too.

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#83352: Mar 22nd 2018 at 10:48:33 AM

Actually, Steve was a giant middle-finger towards the Nazis....the "arian ideal" fighting for everything the Nazi's despise.

Also, Falcon posing with the shield in the comics is different than actually seeing him using it in movement and lugging it around in flight...or is he supposed to give up the wings in favour for the shield?

And, btw, if they really want to turn him into a symbol for the US, they should simply rename him and call him "Eagle".

Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#83353: Mar 22nd 2018 at 10:49:32 AM

Maybe he could have a shield design on his wings, and have them reforged with vibranium?

edited 22nd Mar '18 10:49:47 AM by Sigilbreaker26

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
Cross (Don’t ask)
#83354: Mar 22nd 2018 at 10:51:02 AM

Has was Dick being Batman generally regarded? I keep getting mixed signals on it.

It was really difficult not to makes the obvious jokes here.

[up][up] His hands are normally free when he's flying.

edited 22nd Mar '18 10:52:30 AM by Cross

wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#83355: Mar 22nd 2018 at 10:51:22 AM

But why does it have to be Sam? You could create a different black character.

Well, from a story standpoint you get to bring Sam’s established history into a new perspective. From a business standpoint you have a character that’s known/has fans already. Plus, since Steve is never gone for good, this prevents creating a character to be Cap, then demoting them/renaming them when Steve returns. With an existing character that transition is easier.

And, btw, if they really want to turn him into a symbol for the US, they should simply rename him and call him "Eagle".

That misses my entire point. For the Marvel Universe, Captain America is THE symbol of America. Renaming Sam “Eagle” has none of the weight or symbolism of Sam becoming Cap.

edited 22nd Mar '18 10:53:07 AM by wisewillow

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#83356: Mar 22nd 2018 at 10:54:42 AM

[up]So instead you just "demote" Sam back to being Falcon. It still has the implication that being Cap is a promotion and he's just filling the role until Steve returns.

That last bit kind of ties into another thing I was thinking about. Another famous case of this is Carol Danvers taking over the Captain Marvel title. The key difference is that Mar-Vell actually died and so far they've been good about sticking to that. Unless Cap dies for good it just seems weird to me.

edited 22nd Mar '18 10:55:59 AM by Kostya

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#83357: Mar 22nd 2018 at 10:56:02 AM

Mar-Vell died. Monica Rambeau got demoted twice by his son. Genis-Vell died. Phyla-Vell died.

Be afraid Carol.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#83358: Mar 22nd 2018 at 10:58:55 AM

Monica was actually Captain Marvel at one point? I thought she went from Ms. Marvel to Photon.

ComicFan Since: Sep, 2016
#83359: Mar 22nd 2018 at 11:03:38 AM

Monica was the second Captain Marvel, then she became Photon, Pulsar, and Spectrum.

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#83360: Mar 22nd 2018 at 11:03:47 AM

Monica started as Captain Marvel.

There was another character that started as Ms Marvel and she became She-Thing

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#83361: Mar 22nd 2018 at 11:04:33 AM

[up][up] Those last three names just scream "we couldn't think of a good name."

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
Aleistar Since: Feb, 2018 Relationship Status: Hugging my pillow
#83362: Mar 22nd 2018 at 11:06:20 AM

[up] Spectrum is pretty decent. That was the name she used during her time in the Ultimates, right?

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#83363: Mar 22nd 2018 at 11:07:02 AM

Photon and Spectrum are both good.

Because she can turn into light but all the lights.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#83364: Mar 22nd 2018 at 11:07:03 AM

Then Monica's kind of a reverse case since she started out as a legacy character and then adopted her own superhero identity.

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#83365: Mar 22nd 2018 at 11:08:07 AM

Does she count as a legacy character if she had no idea that someone else had even used the name and then had tragically died

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#83366: Mar 22nd 2018 at 11:18:10 AM

Having control over the electromagnetic spectrum really should make you one of the most powerful beings in the universe.

Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#83367: Mar 22nd 2018 at 11:20:08 AM

Well, I was talking about a successor in the MCU in the event that Steve was Killed Off for Real (or even just temporarily killed) which would probably limit successors to Sam and/or Bucky. And I guess any villainous character also taking on the mantle (so Burnside and/or Walker).

Bucky has the advantage powerwise, but although he is/was a nice enough guy, in terms of personality and providing inspiration, Sam seems to me a way better choice.

Besides liking the "diversity" aspect, I have some issues in terms of how organic it feels from a story perspective to have Bucky wearing the costume, especially if he's doing so in a context where he's pretending to be Steve (obviously not an issue with Sam) and the costume is designed so that his hair and metal arm are covered.

Because it seems in character that Bucky would become a hero as part of a Redemption Quest and even that he would want to honor Steve, but if he's pretending to be him as a way of escaping bad publicity, that seems more like supervillain behavior. And conversely, it's kind of hard for me to imagine a situation where there public at large knows who Bucky is and knows he's Captain America.

Tl; dr, not sure if I'm making sense, but I'm trying to say that while comic book logic (and racism) would make Bucky the better candidate to take over as Captain America, verisimilitude in the story would make Sam a better option.

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#83368: Mar 22nd 2018 at 11:23:43 AM

I’d prefer Sam as Captain America because he’s been shown to have his own priorities, history, and perspectives apart from Steve, so there’s more to draw from him in the role. I like Bucky, but for the most part he’s been something of a satellite character to Steve and so we don’t know much about what he’s like personally.

edited 22nd Mar '18 11:24:04 AM by Tuckerscreator

Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#83369: Mar 22nd 2018 at 11:25:30 AM

Yeah, that's a good, concise way of putting it (sorry, I tend to be verbose).

We have a pretty good sense of Sam's worldview, but not so much for Bucky, except to the extent we can broadly assume that he and Steve are politically sympatico.

windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#83370: Mar 22nd 2018 at 12:03:47 PM

And, btw, if they really want to turn him into a symbol for the US, they should simply rename him and call him "Eagle".

On a side note there’s a Native American character called American Eagle. Which makes me wonder if there’s ever been a Native American Captain America.

Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#83371: Mar 22nd 2018 at 12:06:08 PM

Steve Rogers in Marvel: 1602 doesn't count, right?

Edit- Although I dislike Mighty Whitey/ Raised by Natives as a trope, I kind of think it works here, because it's sort of period appropriate and especially reminds me of Voltaire's story "L'Ingenue". Not to mention, it really was a thing in the past for Europeans to not really know what people looked like in other countries and find it perfectly plausible that they looked like white Europeans. This is pretty much why the Princess Caribou scam worked. And that was in the early 1800s, which makes it even more believable in 1600.

edited 22nd Mar '18 12:14:26 PM by Hodor2

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#83372: Mar 22nd 2018 at 12:09:17 PM

Having control over the electromagnetic spectrum really should make you one of the most powerful beings in the universe.

She's at a planet busting level at least and was on the Ultimates which was a team for the big guns solving big gun problems. Like fighting an entire universe. Or curing Galactus' munchies.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#83373: Mar 22nd 2018 at 12:10:11 PM

If Sam can wield the mighty shield, then all other should yield to him being in the field.

Hashtag YOU BETTER RESPECT THE FALCON CAPTAIN AMERICA!!!

But yeah, I think Sam makes sense. I actually read a comic years ago before he took the job in the modern age where he took up Cap's costume straight up because Cap got zapped by some dudes and disappeared.

edited 22nd Mar '18 12:10:35 PM by HandsomeRob

One Strip! One Strip!
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#83374: Mar 22nd 2018 at 12:12:30 PM

Just to mention it, Carol Danvers became Captain America in the mangaverse. And in a time honored tradition, she wore a costume sized for a man that somehow still managed to be practically skin tight when she wore it. And also it was a costume manga Steve had never even worn on panel because he was too busy being president.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#83375: Mar 22nd 2018 at 12:40:17 PM

Another reason why I prefer Sam over Bucky is because Steve's an artifact of another time. Having Steve pass the mantle to Sam is an acknowledgment that Captain America's not just an avatar of cultural values that America's forgotten. It's an act of Steve recognizing that the ideals he believes in and upholds are alive and well in the modern day, in men like Sam.

Sam taking up the shield means that the people of today still have it in them to be Captain America.

Giving it to Bucky is just going, "Well, our Holy Dinosaur died, but it's cool. We're not yet doomed to be wicked monsters forever because we have another Holy Dinosaur in reserve that we can use."

It's the DC v. Marvel thing. Superman is meant to be unattainable; Captain America is meant to be someone that any of us could become.

edited 22nd Mar '18 12:42:15 PM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.

Total posts: 186,763
Top