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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#83051: Mar 19th 2018 at 12:53:30 AM

In the beginning it does make sense (not so later on because once we get to the drunk scene he's outright insufferable) but it still kind of comes off the wrong way to me, I dunno.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#83053: Mar 19th 2018 at 2:50:41 AM

I wonder if they'd kill off Hawkeye,he's far from the most popular Avenger.

Would be very tempting if I were in their postilion

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#83054: Mar 19th 2018 at 2:56:57 AM

They can always just retire him. Like they did in Ao U.

Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#83055: Mar 19th 2018 at 2:59:03 AM

So to go back to the infinity stones discussion. Trailer spoilers but are we all just taking it as a given that the stone shown in Thanos’ gauntlet in the trailer isn’t actully the soul stone and they’ve changed the colour for the trailer?

As for Wakanda It looks like after whatever happens in New York (with Tony, Peter and Strange ending up on the giant ring thing and then someonhow another planet where they run into the guardians) the remaining Avengers take Vison to Wakanda for protection/maybe to get the stone out while keeping him alive.

That seems to be the motive for Thanos’ attack on Wakanda, that Vison is there with mind, which I’d say works better than soul secretly being there the entire time.

So assuming the trailer is lying to us about Thanos having soul already are we guessing that it’s either Reality or Power (does the gauntlet have a specific layout in the comics?), Thanos gets Space from Loki and then Time and Mind from Earth, which leaves him to grab just Soul and whichever of Reality or Power he’s yet to get.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#83056: Mar 19th 2018 at 3:08:43 AM

> They can always just retire him. Like they did in Ao U.

Going out with a bang is more exciting,no?

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#83057: Mar 19th 2018 at 3:10:50 AM

[up]Depends. Personally, I'm fine with some characters being simply written out permanently.

Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#83058: Mar 19th 2018 at 5:46:54 AM

I feel it's kinda unsatisfying when that happens but then again not everything needs to be dramatic

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#83059: Mar 19th 2018 at 6:05:36 AM

Wait, why do you think the trailer indicates he has soul? He has blue (space) and purple (power) IIRC.

NativeJovian Jupiterian Local from Orlando, FL Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Jupiterian Local
#83060: Mar 19th 2018 at 6:17:21 AM

re: Hulk, I thought it was an interesting (and not necessarily bad) choice to essentially treat the '03 Hulk movie (bad as it was) as Broad Strokes canon. Saves the trouble of having to do yet another origin story movie, especially when Hulk's origin isn't especially interesting anyway. The Brazil -> Guatemala stuff is definitely silly, though. Part of the movie's problems with continuity in general.

re: Iron Man 2, I agree that Vanko being disconnected from Tony's personal struggles is the biggest problem with the movie, but overall I still enjoyed it. Tony's absolutely unsympathetic for parts of the movie, but that's by design — Iron Man 2 is basically him hitting rock bottom before he gets his act together, we're not supposed to be rooting for him while he's being an even bigger and more irresponsible dick than usual. I also liked the improv scenes that you didn't — the Iron Man movies have a ton of fantastic talent and letting them show off their acting chops is great fun.

edited 19th Mar '18 6:17:44 AM by NativeJovian

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#83061: Mar 19th 2018 at 6:20:03 AM

Which colour is missing btw? So far we have

Tesseract - Space - blue

Aether - Reality - red (I think....)

Eye of Argawhatever - Time - was it green?

Orb - Power - Purple

Sceptre - mind - yellow

So...unless I have the colours wrong the soul stone might be orange?

edited 19th Mar '18 6:20:17 AM by Swanpride

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#83062: Mar 19th 2018 at 7:11:10 AM

Speaking of MCU romance, Peter and Gamora works for me because while they're clearly into each other it just hasn't happened yet because of the various baggage they're carrying with Gamora being the one to hit the brakes because Peter never met a reckless decision he didn't like

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#83063: Mar 19th 2018 at 7:21:15 AM

I wonder if Thanos is going to use the Infinity stones he already has. So far, we've seen that he has two: Power and Reality. Presumably, that portal he entered through in the first trailer was the work of the Reality Stone, so maybe he'll use the Power Stone to do some gigantic army-decimating energy blasts or something.

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#83064: Mar 19th 2018 at 7:23:35 AM

There's speculation that he throws a moon using Power and Space

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
LordVatek Not really a lord of anything Since: Sep, 2014
Not really a lord of anything
#83065: Mar 19th 2018 at 7:24:26 AM

[up][up]Space is the other one that he has. Reality is the red one.

This song needs more love.
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#83066: Mar 19th 2018 at 7:26:09 AM

The biggest problem with Iron Man 2 was that it tried to be Devil in a Bottle but wasn't willing to actually use the Bottle, so they made up some stuff about palladium poisoning. This was back when superhero movies were obligated to be big goofy spectacles. I can't help but wonder if the same movie made today would have been more willing to straight-up address, "Tony Stark is an alcoholic and that is not okay."

This is especially glaring at the party Rhodey interrupts. Tony's wasted and firing off weapons in the middle of crowd because he's an alcoholic and this is what happens his Arc Reactor is killing him and he feels sad about it!

The film's message is hugely muddled. It's also not helped by the fact that it commits the Spider-Man 3 sin of too many plotlines. The film's central plot threads are:

  • The government wants Tony's weapons.
  • Tony's Arc Reactor is killing him.
  • Tony's dad pissed off a dude because of a crime he may or may not have committed.

And these threads advance largely independent of one another and only occasionally intersecting. Tony's personal journey is entirely divorced from Vanko who, himself, is only tangentially related to Hammer. And also S.H.I.E.L.D. is there.

edited 19th Mar '18 7:27:01 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#83067: Mar 19th 2018 at 7:34:10 AM

Right, sorry. I mixed up that those are different Stones. Despite the post almost immediately above mine mentioning that. That was really dumb on my part.

Space: creates portals and can teleport you anywhere.

Reality: can warp the fabric of reality itself, transmuting elements.

Power: can make things go boom real good.

Mind: can brain-wash people and has its own intelligence.

Time: can fuck with time, reversing it, slowing it down, stopping it, or creating a time loop.

Soul: can take the powers of others, apparently.

He has Space and Power, not Reality. Though I'm curious where the Reality Stone is going to turn up if Thanos doesn't have it.

NativeJovian Jupiterian Local from Orlando, FL Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Jupiterian Local
#83068: Mar 19th 2018 at 7:39:53 AM

It's pretty clear that the fact that Tony is drunk as hell is what finally pushes Rhodes over the edge and gets him to intervene. They don't drive it into the ground, but they make it pretty clear that Tony's a semi-functional alcoholic who's in the process of losing even the "semi-functional" part. The real plot of Iron Man 2 is "Tony Stark finally decides to get his shit together" and the Congressional hearing, palladium poisoning, and alcoholism are all just aspects of that.

The Vanko plot is the odd one out. "Tony's daddy issues" could have been just one more thing on the pile, but they don't really commit to it and it comes off badly as a result. Like, did Howard Stark actually screw over Anton Vanko like his son thinks? At first it's suggested that yes, he did, because Howard Stark was a cold and controlling man who cared little for other people. But then it turns out, no, Tony was wrong and his father actually did legitimately care about him. But whether Vanko's beef was legit is left unanswered.

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.
Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#83069: Mar 19th 2018 at 7:40:42 AM

I hugely prefer Iron Man 3 to Iron Man 2.

Iron Man 2 is waaay too self indulgent and having Tony struggle with PTSD and be deprived of his powers is a lot better than having him struggle with battery poisoning and just sort of dick around for an entire movie. Also, while Killian is a bit of a limp noodle having the opening scene be him contemplating suicide because of Tony is actually quite effective, and I enjoyed a lot of the political themes even if I don't precisely agree with them, which is the sign I think that the movie is doing its job.

edited 19th Mar '18 7:43:51 AM by Sigilbreaker26

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#83070: Mar 19th 2018 at 7:45:35 AM

It's pretty clear that the fact that Tony is drunk as hell is what finally pushes Rhodes over the edge and gets him to intervene. They don't drive it into the ground, but they make it pretty clear that Tony's a semi-functional alcoholic who's in the process of losing even the "semi-functional" part. The real plot of Iron Man 2 is "Tony Stark finally decides to get his shit together" and the Congressional hearing, palladium poisoning, and alcoholism are all just aspects of that.

It's visibly clear, yes, but it never comes up. No one ever talks about it and it never gets resolved. The film codes Tony's problem with alcoholism but is unwilling to actually explore the fact that he's an alcoholic. By the end of the movie, he's still drinking.

You can infer from the movie that he's an alcoholic, but so far as the movie's concerned, there's nothing wrong with that and you shouldn't hold it against him.

And if the point of the movie is Tony getting his shit together, then pointedly ignoring a real, actual problem that he has in favor of dedicating the movie to some fantasy illness is the entirely wrong way to go about it.

edited 19th Mar '18 7:48:20 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
deuteragonist Since: Dec, 2013
#83071: Mar 19th 2018 at 7:50:07 AM

[up][up]I agree but honestly I strongly dislike both. I don't really care for Tony in either of those films.

I feel like Iron Man 3 is just one of those movies that I don't get. It has its fans but I really don't see the hype. When people mention Marvel's (and Disney's) unhealthy habit of forcing humor into the story, Iron Man 3 is the main culprit that comes to mind. Oh and that Mandarin twist was awful.

Luigisan98 A wandering user from Venezuelan Muscat Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: I <3 love!
A wandering user
#83072: Mar 19th 2018 at 7:52:10 AM

Infinity War's runtime confirmed to be two hours and 36 minutes.

Well, it's still long, but it could leave enough room for material for us to see.

The only good fanboy, is a redeemed fanboy.
NativeJovian Jupiterian Local from Orlando, FL Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Jupiterian Local
#83073: Mar 19th 2018 at 8:00:53 AM

Fair point about the film never actually addressing the alcoholism directly. I wouldn't say that the film depicts it as okay, but no one ever actually calls Tony out on it, either, which is a problem when it's something they certainly should be. I don't even remember saying anything about how he shouldn't drink so much, much less actually using the word "alcoholic".

Iron Man 3 was my least favorite of the Iron Man trilogy. The idea of Tony dealing with PTSD from the events of The Avengers was interesting, but we already did "Tony hits rock bottom" once, and the rest of the plot was mostly incoherent. Like I literally can't make any sense of it. Something about a virus that makes people explode (unless it gives them energy beam superpowers instead), as masterminded by the Mandarin, except it's not really the Mandarin, except the real Mandarin is actually behind the fake Mandarin after all! (Now why does any of this involve Tony Stark again? I legitimately have no idea.)

I dunno, maybe some of this pays off later — Iron Man 3 is the last MCU movie I watched, I haven't seen anything more recent than that (barring Guardians of the Galaxy, which is pretty much unrelated anyway). But I just felt like Iron Man 3 didn't really make a whole lot of sense in general.

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.
Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#83074: Mar 19th 2018 at 8:01:23 AM

I think one's opinion of IM 3 hinges entirely on whether or not they accept the Mandarin twist as a good idea. That's all I'll say on the matter.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#83075: Mar 19th 2018 at 8:10:56 AM

Seriously, the Collector should still have the Reality Stone, right? The scene of Thanos torturing him presumably happens earlier in the film, so why doesn't he have it? My bet is that scene is part of a larger action scene where the Guardians + Thor manage to snag the Reality Stone and hightail it to Earth before Thanos can get them, conveniently leaving all three major groups with one Infinity Stone. Steve's group has Vision with Mind, Tony's group has Dr. Strange with Time, and Thor's group has Reality.


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