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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
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If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#83001: Mar 18th 2018 at 12:45:17 PM

My impression is that we'll likely have a Establishing Character Moment Villain Prologue of Thanos attacking Xandar en masse and completely wiping out the Nova Corps (and maybe even Xandar as of itself) before taking the Power Stone before stopping by and grabbing a hold of the Space Stone with Loki and the Asgardians (thus why we see him with only two stones in promotional material). Or possibly backwards, but the point is he'll lay waste to Asgardians and Xandarians before doing anything and the rest of the film will be the Avengers holding the line on earth to keep Thanos from getting Mind (which is with Vision) and Time (with Doc Strange)

Reality is still, one presumes, with Collector in Knowhere, so I'm guessing the part of the film set in space involves them trying to keep Thanos and his ilk from getting the Reality Stone.

I can see the idea that the Soul Stone is in Wakanda and the heroes try to protect it, but as the film wears on and Thanos manages to get all the Stones except Soul and heavily batter their defenses, they realize they cannot keep Thanos away from the Soul Stone, and thus decide to flung the Stone (via Strange's magic I'm guessing) somewhere Thanos won't be able to reach and a place even they themselves cannot reach to make sure he doesn't get it before escaping Thanos's wrath by the skin of their teeth.

Thus, Thanos and the Avengers race to whatever confines of the universe they hurled the Stone to.

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#83002: Mar 18th 2018 at 12:49:18 PM

In reference to why Thanos is attacking Wakanda, the EW article from last week (or was it this week?) had the Russos explain: The Avengers bring Vision there after he gets his ass kicked by the Black Order, and Thanos' army shows up there to finish him off and get the Mind Stone.

edited 18th Mar '18 12:49:28 PM by comicwriter

KarkatTheDalek Not as angry as the name would suggest. from Somwhere in Time/Space Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
Not as angry as the name would suggest.
#83003: Mar 18th 2018 at 12:50:26 PM

In regards to the Soul Stone: If Thanos has it, then why isn’t he using it?

Oh God! Natural light!
Whowho Since: May, 2012
#83004: Mar 18th 2018 at 12:54:14 PM

I'm surprised that Thanos is making a move before he knows where all the stones are. I know Earth has three at once that that kind of forces his hand to take them before they're scattered or assembled, but he'd previously been crafty and used proxy agents like Loki.

Maybe he does know where the Soul stone is, but the funniest thing is it looks like he was wrong about where the reality stone is. So this could all be for nothing if he only gets four or five out of six. And if he doesn't get all of them, he's probably just inviting a celestial to drop from the sky and take his hands from him.

Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#83005: Mar 18th 2018 at 12:56:24 PM

> In regards to the Soul Stone: If Thanos has it, then why isn’t he using it?

He doesn't know how to use it or it will only work with the other stones

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#83006: Mar 18th 2018 at 12:56:53 PM

...I just realized I forgot the time stone existed in all my earlier posts. Oops. In my defense I skipped Doctor Strange.

So Earth has contact with 4/6 stones.

MedusaStone Since: Jan, 2015
#83007: Mar 18th 2018 at 1:19:58 PM

Has it been established how the Black Panther has his powers? Because I just though of something. Steve and Red Skull each turned out the way they did after being exposed to Erskine's serum because of who they each were (good becomes great, bad becomes worse). What was in their respective souls, if you will. What if that serum is based on/derived from the same thing they're using in Wakanda? If they go the heart-shaped herb route, maybe the reason it works that way -manifesting the strength (or weakness) of the soul by physically altering the person exposed to it- is because unbeknownst to the people of Wakanda, the Soul Stone is buried very deep in the soil, affecting the herbs.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#83008: Mar 18th 2018 at 1:22:53 PM

It's the heart-shaped herb. This is explicitly stated in Black Panther.

I'm surprised that Thanos is making a move before he knows where all the stones are. I know Earth has three at once that that kind of forces his hand to take them before they're scattered or assembled, but he'd previously been crafty and used proxy agents like Loki.

Age of Ultron answered that. After Ultron's failure, Thanos lost patience and grabbed his Gauntlet. "Fine, I'll do it myself!"

He's fed up with the failures of proxy agents like Loki, Ronan, and Ultron.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#83009: Mar 18th 2018 at 1:32:29 PM

Reminder that in the comics the Soul Stone is considered the most powerful of all the Infinity Gems since it lets the user steal another's powers. So I get the feeling they're saving that one for the end.

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#83010: Mar 18th 2018 at 1:32:58 PM

He also previously had the Mind Stone so I'm guessing he's pissed he has to go fetch it again.

[up]I'm expecting Infinity War to end with Thanos in possession of all the stones but that one. Then Avengers 4 is Thanos and the Avengers/Guardians both flying off into space to track it down before the other side does.

edited 18th Mar '18 1:34:07 PM by Kostya

wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#83011: Mar 18th 2018 at 1:34:13 PM

It’s his own fault. Why Loki needed that in the first place when he’s an ACTUAL SORCEROR who can presumably do a minor mind control spell...

Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#83012: Mar 18th 2018 at 1:35:59 PM

Full on possession is hardly minor and is also not an ability Loki has in the MCU anyway. He's basically got illusions and that's it.

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#83013: Mar 18th 2018 at 1:45:50 PM

I mean, he didn’t possess Clint and Selvig, just... instantly brainwashed them. Which, come on. Surely there’s a way to do that without casually handing someone the freaking Mind Stone?!

KarkatTheDalek Not as angry as the name would suggest. from Somwhere in Time/Space Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
Not as angry as the name would suggest.
#83014: Mar 18th 2018 at 1:46:56 PM

I think you're making a lot of assumptions about Loki's powers in the MCU.

Oh God! Natural light!
Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#83015: Mar 18th 2018 at 1:48:27 PM

Mind Control doesn't seem that common. I think the closest we've seen to what the Mind Stone does is Kilgrave and he's a lot more limited. Loki has illusions but that's pretty much it.

Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#83016: Mar 18th 2018 at 1:49:37 PM

Fully rewiring the brain is a very big power, if Loki could do that without the mind stone how did he lose in Thor 1?

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#83017: Mar 18th 2018 at 1:50:28 PM

Hmmm. Let’s see, canonical powers.

Illusions: demonstrated in every movie.

Hiding stuff in pocket dimensions and then retrieving it: seen in Thor, implied in Ragnarok.

Finding/using pathways between worlds: told about in Thor, shown in Dark World.

Any other canon powers I forgot?

Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#83018: Mar 18th 2018 at 1:53:45 PM

So Hammerspace, Dimensional Portal (s) and Master of Illusion.

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#83019: Mar 18th 2018 at 1:57:56 PM

This kind of gets into that continuing debate over whether Loki was brainwashed, but thinking about it, I'm wonder if the Mind Stone's actual power is that of a Reality Warper, allowing people to make their thoughts a reality. So like (brainwashing theory) Thanos's power influences Loki to think more like him and also impacts Ultron's thought process. And at the same time, just as Loki was able to use it to make people like him and want to do whatever he asked, Tony and Bruce were able to create Ultron because they wanted to.

Harder to explain Wanda and Pietro's powers, but I'll speculate now that what happened is that Strucker really wanted to empower people worked and for the same reason, because Wanda and Pietro really wanted powers, it gave it to them.

Edit- I think this makes some sense because the MCU's Reality Stone doesn't primarily allow people to manipulate reality based on their desires. It's more in the way of changing mass into energy and back again.

edited 18th Mar '18 2:06:14 PM by Hodor2

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#83020: Mar 18th 2018 at 2:12:44 PM

[up][up]All of which fit with his general status as "trickster". Straight up mind control is a different and much more powerful ability though. He's never demonstrated anything close that.

[up]He wasn't brainwashed in the same way Selvig and Hawkeye were but I think it's pretty clear he was being influenced by the stone.

edited 18th Mar '18 2:13:35 PM by Kostya

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#83021: Mar 18th 2018 at 2:33:19 PM

He was certainly threatened by the Other. But, honestly, no point to rehash this old discussion now when we are about to get new information next month.

Count me in as wanting the soul stone to be elsewhere.

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#83022: Mar 18th 2018 at 2:53:10 PM

The portrals, it's worth noting, aren't his doing. They're apparently naturally occurring - hes just good at finding them.

For a magic user, MCU Loki is rather low on actual magical abilities - he's basically a one-trick unicorn. Blame the fact that the MCU largely failed to develop the concept of Asgardian magic in favor of emphasizing their "medieval warrior" tropes instead. As such, Loki is their only wizard and when they meet Dr. Strange completely outclasses him within seconds.

edited 18th Mar '18 2:55:24 PM by KnownUnknown

Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#83023: Mar 18th 2018 at 2:56:48 PM

I don't think that particularly makes him less impressive. After all, Loki's not the god of magic, he's the god of trickery. He uses charisma and parlour tricks to win his fights.

edited 18th Mar '18 2:57:06 PM by Sigilbreaker26

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#83024: Mar 18th 2018 at 2:58:55 PM

The question wasn't whether he's impressive. The question was whether he's a sorcerer powerful enough that he wouldn't need to be given an Infinity Stone to do the job Thanos needed him to do.

And... well... he isn't. If Thanos had someone as powerful as, say, The Ancient One was his magical agent, then I could see him not needing to throw an Infinity Stone into the mix to assure his victory. But few of his minions are strong enough that they could handle an invasion without risk, so I can believe him thinking the Infinity Stones were a viable instant win accessory.

Like an RTS player spending resources they probably don't need to spend on a weapon they probably don't need to have just to be absolutely sure the overkill nets them a win. And then losing anyway.

edited 18th Mar '18 3:12:16 PM by KnownUnknown

Whowho Since: May, 2012
#83025: Mar 18th 2018 at 2:59:55 PM

[up]x3 Ha! You're right. I like that Loki must be realising he was a medium fish in a small pond.

To be fair to him, unlike Strange he doesn't need artifacts or eldritch pacts to use his power.

edited 18th Mar '18 3:00:47 PM by Whowho


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