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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Whowho Since: May, 2012
#82776: Mar 16th 2018 at 3:09:23 PM

I hope Bill Foster's inclusion in ANT-MAN and THE WASP leads to his long overdue resurrection in the 616.

He could be all, "What do you mean, Civil War 'one'?", and "Robot clone Thor?" and "Shape shifting aliens impersonating our scientists?" and "So, is there no one left to be held responsible for my death?"

wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#82777: Mar 16th 2018 at 3:09:36 PM

I would be delighted if Sharon was a Skrull. She’s major enough to count, but minor enough to not traumatize us, plus that romantic pairing is gross gross NOPE.

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#82778: Mar 16th 2018 at 3:10:29 PM

"I'd say blame Tony but Carol beat him into a coma for unrelated reasons"
"Did everyone lose their goddamn minds since I've been gone??"

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Whowho Since: May, 2012
#82779: Mar 16th 2018 at 3:11:47 PM

"So, like, who even won that war I died in anyway?"

"Uuhhh... Norman Osborn."

"What."

EDIT: I'm pro Sharon Carter being a Skrull. It's a popular theory. But like, if Cap dies and it's discovered after the fact she's been a Skrull all a long, I'd feel that would be cheep.

edited 16th Mar '18 3:12:59 PM by Whowho

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#82780: Mar 16th 2018 at 3:12:32 PM

Never understood what is gross about Steve/Sharon. If he actually knew that she is Peggy's nice when getting interested in her and she looking kind of Peggy, yeah, then I would see it, too. But he doesn't know and she has little in common with Peggy other than the surname, so I really don't see anything gross in them liking each other.

Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#82781: Mar 16th 2018 at 3:13:00 PM

Edit- moving to next page

edited 16th Mar '18 3:16:25 PM by Hodor2

AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#82782: Mar 16th 2018 at 3:13:45 PM

Steve is several decades older than Sharon and that already makes the dynamic between them grossly imbalanced.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
Whowho Since: May, 2012
#82783: Mar 16th 2018 at 3:14:12 PM

She's his secret handler, which, opens a can of ethical issues over her seriously pursuing a relationship with him.

EDIT: Also Steve should be with Sam.

edited 16th Mar '18 3:14:56 PM by Whowho

Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#82784: Mar 16th 2018 at 3:16:32 PM

Sharon is of my selections for "is actually a Skrull", because I think you could do interesting things with the Skrull on some level Becoming the Mask, including caring about Peggy.

For what it's worth, I don't find her relationship with Steve creepy, and don't really get the objection, unless the argument is that Steve's relationship with anyone is creepy, because he was frozen. I mean I kind of get why the hero worship aspect is off-putting, coupled with the fact that Steve loved her great aunt, but it isn't that different to me than how Steve was friends with Howard (who loved him in a possibly romantic way), and is at least theoretically friends with Tony. And plenty of people ship them.

RE Bill Foster, reminded me of something I've mentioned previously. I'd like there to be a comics shout out where in Infinity War, when Tony tells Thor about Civil War, he'll mention that he debated cloning him, but that would be wrong, and besides he couldn't get the DNA right fast enough.

Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#82785: Mar 16th 2018 at 3:22:06 PM

If Skrulls appear I wonder if they'll do the Kree vs Skrull conflict

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#82786: Mar 16th 2018 at 3:23:01 PM

To be clear, I think the niece thing is what makes it creepy. I’ve never been a fan of the fall-in-love-with-your-relative trope. And Sharon was lying to Cap when they first met, plus the timing after Peggy’s funeral was uncomfortable.

I don’t think it’s as bad as, say, Bruce/Natasha, I’m just not a fan.

Also, we’ll never get Steve/Bucky or Steve/Sam but either pairing would be cute as hell.

windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#82787: Mar 16th 2018 at 3:24:31 PM

Sharon warned Cap that there is a "shot on sight" order out there.

Yeah, how did Sharon know this information again?

As I already pointed out, Bucky learned tactics from freaking Hydra. Him thinking that it is a good tactic is pretty much a red flag that it is an amoral tactic.

How? Thinking a dangerous terrorist (and make no mistake Bucky is dangerous) should be shot on sight is not a viewpoint exclusive to neo nazis

Also there's a video on the "Sharon is a Skrull" theory

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xU3InsThiXw&t=206s

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#82788: Mar 16th 2018 at 3:26:37 PM

As I already pointed out, Bucky learned tactics from freaking Hydra. Him thinking that it is a good tactic is pretty much a red flag that it is an amoral tactic. Plus, just because something is realistic it doesn't mean that it is morally sound or lawful. I am not bothered by people who think that yeah, this is something which might happen in this situation, I am bothered by people arguing that it is the right thing to do when it so clearly isn't.

No, he didn't. The Winter Soldier was programmed by Hydra but Bucky learned from the United States Army. He was an American soldier long before he was a cyborg assassin.

There is no evidence that Bucky, in agreeing with the strategy, is speaking strictly from his evil, ruthless Hydra programming. Hell, if Bucky actually thought the things Hydra programmed him with were good ideas, he would legitimately be a dangerous threat to national security.

edited 16th Mar '18 3:26:59 PM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#82789: Mar 16th 2018 at 3:26:57 PM

About that Bucky's comment on the shoot to kill being smart being an immoral tactic instilled by Hydra.

He's a soldier trained to kill so I'm pretty sure that opinion would be held the same by many soldiers unrelated to Hydra brainwashing. [nja]

[up], [up][up] Or as said there & there.

edited 16th Mar '18 3:28:05 PM by slimcoder

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#82790: Mar 16th 2018 at 3:31:25 PM

Sharon knew the information because she is now working for the CIA.

And Steve is NOT considerably older than her. They are roughly the same age, both physically and in terms of live experience. The only difference is that his live experience is mostly based on the 1930s and 1940s and hers is more current. Also, she is a grown up woman. It's not like Steve is some centuries old vampire poaching on a teenage girl.

Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#82791: Mar 16th 2018 at 3:31:46 PM

Just saying, while Cap was not thinking properly when it comes to Bucky that's totally outwieghed by Tony who isn't shooting straight for the entire film about nearly everything he does.

He's in depression because Pepper's left him, he lets a stray comment from a grieving mother get to him because of said emotional vulnerability and he lets Ross steer him around against his better judgement throughout the film.

Tony's particularly irritating in the later MCU films because he acts massively cocky in Age of Ultron, feels guilty, and then makes everyone else complicit in his guilt.

edited 16th Mar '18 3:32:38 PM by Sigilbreaker26

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
ComicFan Since: Sep, 2016
#82792: Mar 16th 2018 at 3:36:38 PM

Infinity War becomes the highest selling superhero movie in advance tickets and it looks like that Black Panther played in a big part in it[1]

edited 16th Mar '18 3:37:07 PM by ComicFan

unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#82793: Mar 16th 2018 at 3:37:02 PM

[up]I this point I feel Sam and Bucky should let the avenger, they have better dinamic that Steve and Tony.

about sharon...yeah, the timing is awfull, Peggy body barely got cold when he is smoothing his nices, is really hard to not thing he is using her as replacement for her.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#82794: Mar 16th 2018 at 3:48:53 PM

I don't know if Sharon/Steve is gross but it is weird and vastly underwritten for it to have ended up where it did.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#82795: Mar 16th 2018 at 3:50:55 PM

I don't think it's gross. He's not chronologically older, and it's not unheard of for people to date multiple members of the same family.

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
Ghilz Perpetually Confused from Yeeted at Relativistic Velocities Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Perpetually Confused
#82796: Mar 16th 2018 at 3:51:07 PM

I think part of the issue is they got nothing to do with Sharon, hence why it's underwritten. Natasha already covers the super spy role and is present in Capt's movies. And you also would need to have Sharon not just end up a xerox of Peggy coz that just serves to make her more a weird replacement Goldfish. That and the relation is already a bick icky to some audiences.

and it's not unheard of for people to date multiple members of the same family.

No... but usually they are from the same generation, and the person isn't the huge lost love of your aunt's life whom she's still holding a flame for even on her dying days.

edited 16th Mar '18 3:52:27 PM by Ghilz

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#82797: Mar 16th 2018 at 3:51:47 PM

Peggy had just recently died but some people fuck at funerals so I dunno.

Aside from it being underwritten I think it does a disservice to Sharon. She helps Cap and her part of the story ends with their kiss implying that she helped him because she fancied him.

edited 16th Mar '18 3:52:37 PM by Bocaj

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#82798: Mar 16th 2018 at 3:52:39 PM

I guess it's one way of coping with loss.

So long as the guest of honor isn't involved.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#82799: Mar 16th 2018 at 3:53:00 PM

[up][up][up]

Yeah uh, that part right there is also a big reason. It's icky...

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
Ghilz Perpetually Confused from Yeeted at Relativistic Velocities Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Perpetually Confused
#82800: Mar 16th 2018 at 3:54:33 PM

Peggy had just recently died but some people fuck at funerals so I dunno.

Might as well go full Cyclops and make out right on top of the tombstone then!

edited 16th Mar '18 3:55:17 PM by Ghilz


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