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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
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    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#82501: Mar 15th 2018 at 9:07:42 AM

Tucker: on the other hand, I will said Civil war didnt erealy handle well warmachine, he spend the fight toss around like a radgoll before being shot down, which is quite awfull and just highlight how undersued he is.

[up]Well, if YMYV in homecoming said something, tony inclusion does bring some questions here and there....

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
Punisher286 Since: Jan, 2016
#82502: Mar 15th 2018 at 9:15:33 AM

Also War Machine and Vision are conveniently absent from the Lagos mission because, well the plot needs them to be.

Also Hawkeye's inclusion didn't do much for me either.

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#82503: Mar 15th 2018 at 9:17:24 AM

I guess there's a difference between world policing with the people that Cap brought and with actual war machines like Rhodey and Vision

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#82504: Mar 15th 2018 at 9:20:10 AM

Infinity War trailer tomorrow.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#82505: Mar 15th 2018 at 9:20:42 AM

[up] Ooooh nice. [tup]

I hope we see more of the Black Order.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#82506: Mar 15th 2018 at 9:22:38 AM

Weird thought on the subject of Hulk and Bruce Banner

If 'Bruce' truly died you could end up with Hulk in control of both forms,so he could appear to have a human form but he's as strong and angry as the Hulk

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#82507: Mar 15th 2018 at 9:23:06 AM

Tony only fucked up like 70% of things. A nice comfortable lead but there's still room for people like Drax to fuck up. Or for Hydra to have culpability for their own actions like murder and such. Not to mention Hank Pym. And Tony only is responsible for more bad things than others because he gets more screentime.

Exactly. All Tony's fault. I mean, he helped Hydra by putting arc reactors in the helicarriers. Just another disaster caused by the master.tongue

I look forward to that trailer for Infinity War as well.

One Strip! One Strip!
Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#82508: Mar 15th 2018 at 9:23:16 AM

@ Ultimatum- Interestingly, isn't that pretty much the Marvel comics (and AOS) Mr. Hyde? He's a violent jerk in both human and bulked out forms.

edited 15th Mar '18 9:24:21 AM by Hodor2

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#82509: Mar 15th 2018 at 9:24:37 AM

[up] Mr. Hyde is most likely still busy helping pets.

edited 15th Mar '18 9:25:00 AM by Swanpride

windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#82510: Mar 15th 2018 at 9:27:48 AM

One thing I find ridiculous is that Tony is considered irresponsible for leaving his company to be run by Obidiah Stane, a man whom the Starks entrusted to run the company and was Tony's godfather yet no one holds it against Hank Pym that he picked and mentored a guy he knew to be not very trustworthy.

There's also some irony in Pym calling Howard a thief yet Pym is the one participating in theft in Ant-Man.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#82511: Mar 15th 2018 at 9:37:29 AM

I'm giving Hank a pass (not just for my little joke, but in universe) because I got the impression that he recognized some of himself in Cross (something he admits) and was trying to curb those tendencies and make him better than him.

He failed badly.

One Strip! One Strip!
Whowho Since: May, 2012
#82512: Mar 15th 2018 at 9:38:57 AM

I'd like it to be known that I judge Hank Pym for everything and that I think the film encourages you too.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#82513: Mar 15th 2018 at 9:50:40 AM

Meh. Hank's had his time.

I'm just gonna keep shitting on Tony instead. It's more fun.

One Strip! One Strip!
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#82514: Mar 15th 2018 at 9:52:03 AM

A Hulk that is shaped like Banner without sacrificing the strength happened with Hillbilly Loves Incest Hulk in Old Man Logan

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#82515: Mar 15th 2018 at 9:54:12 AM

[up][up][up][up][up] The difference is that Hank picked a guy, recognized the problems in his character and therefore tried to keep him away from dangerous knowledge, but Cross went and overruled him by convincing the board to put him in power. Meanwhile Tony had complete power over his own company, but didn't care enough to look into what his company was actually doing. Hank invented what passes as a superweapon and was so paranoid about someone misusing it that he never shared the knowledge with anyone and only built suits for very specific people. Tony is handling his Ironman suit the same way, but beforehand he was creating weapon after weapon with no care for the people who might hit by it. Take the Jericho. That is not a weapon you can fire without hitting innocents.

[up] Banner is actually the one who deserves the most flak for Ultron imho. Because he was not mind-whammied by Wanda and he really should know better than doing strange experiments without the necessary safety precautions by now.

edited 15th Mar '18 9:55:55 AM by Swanpride

Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#82516: Mar 15th 2018 at 9:56:10 AM

> Hillbilly Loves Incest Hulk in Old Man Logan

Uh OK,first of all why the name?

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#82517: Mar 15th 2018 at 9:59:45 AM

He loves incest

In that he raped She-Hulk to produce a bunch of inbred kids

Because Mark Millar

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#82518: Mar 15th 2018 at 10:00:41 AM

And she wasn't the first.

Just the only one who ........ could keep up.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#82520: Mar 15th 2018 at 10:27:29 AM

You know, I have stuff I like. Stuff some people might disagree with.

But whenever I read posts about Mark Millar putting in incest or that other shit, it only reminds me that if I ever truly break out as a writer, to either keep that shit contained, or hire someone who's job it is to tie me up and kick my ass if I ever let it get out of control.

Cause some of these guys need the same. They need it everyday.

One Strip! One Strip!
wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#82521: Mar 15th 2018 at 10:31:55 AM

Millar legitimately creeps me the hell out. Like, Stephen King has written creepy stuff, but he doesn’t seem to luxuriate in it. Millar? He gives me the heebie jeebies. As does that Cho guy and the artist from the Spider-woman debacle.

windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#82522: Mar 15th 2018 at 10:38:58 AM

The difference is that Hank picked a guy, recognized the problems in his character and therefore tried to keep him away from dangerous knowledge, but Cross went and overruled him by convincing the board to put him in power. Meanwhile Tony had complete power over his own company, but didn't care enough to look into what his company was actually doing. Hank invented what passes as a superweapon and was so paranoid about someone misusing it that he never shared the knowledge with anyone and only built suits for very specific people. Tony is handling his Ironman suit the same way, but beforehand he was creating weapon after weapon with no care for the people who might hit by it. Take the Jericho. That is not a weapon you can fire without hitting innocents.
If Tony was really that careless he’d have lost the company much, much earlier due to mismanagement. Clearly he wasn’t that irresponsible. He trusted a guy who was close friends with his father and who never gave Tony or anyone any reason to believe he wasn’t on the up and up. And when he realized how dangerous his weapons were he shut the weapons division down. Pym, meanwhile, hired a guy he already believed to be shifty and his beef with Cross comes across less like him wanting to keep a dangerous weapon out of evil hands and more him just being patent prima donna (it isn’t until later that Pym learns Cross is selling the Ant-Man technology to terrorists). And his crying about the Starks being thieves is laughable given the crimes he himself commits to get what he wants. In fact, him breaking into Avengers compound would count as a crime against Tony itself.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#82523: Mar 15th 2018 at 10:45:37 AM

And his crying about the Starks being thieves is laughable given the crimes he himself commits to get what he wants. In fact, him breaking into Avengers compound would count as a crime against Tony itself.

I don't see a problem with that last part.tongue

And to be fair, that was Scott who did that entirely on his own.

One Strip! One Strip!
Whowho Since: May, 2012
#82524: Mar 15th 2018 at 10:58:02 AM

Ant-Man as a film implies that Hank always knew that Cross was unstable, and choose him exactly because of that; he related to it and saw himself in it.

The film also implies that he's making the exact same mistake in Scott, and you get some interesting tension from that. That maybe Scott is the wrong choice and is gonna mess everything up simply because Hank can't stop furthering his projection complex.

An interesting angle I never hear explored is Hope's role in Cross. Given that she was the deciding vote in kicking Hank out of his own company. The more I think about it the more interesting Hope is. She's nearly forty in the film and she's facing off against a villain she her self kind of enabled out of spite against her dad, and then has to work with that same dad (Who is still an asshole) to fix her mistake.

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#82525: Mar 15th 2018 at 11:19:51 AM

Hope is nearly forty?

Y'know, it does occur to me that the MCU kind of breaks from Hollywood Action Movie standards by having many of its heroes and heroines across the board be visibly older people as apposed to being dominated solely by hip young characters who are down with the youth.


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