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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
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    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#82476: Mar 14th 2018 at 6:09:55 PM

Banner could die,but Hulk then takes over completely,and everyone is screwed when that happens

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
Eagal Since: Apr, 2012
#82477: Mar 14th 2018 at 6:20:15 PM

I hope literally the opposite of that happens. Hulk dies, Banner lives, everyone lives happily ever after.

edited 14th Mar '18 6:20:32 PM by Eagal

Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#82478: Mar 14th 2018 at 6:53:37 PM

Trouble is,even if it were possible to kill the Hulk Banner might die too since Hulk and Banner are the same guy

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
Aleistar Since: Feb, 2018 Relationship Status: Hugging my pillow
#82479: Mar 14th 2018 at 6:59:31 PM

I thought that more or less happened at the end of Thor Ragnarok? The Bruce dying thing.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#82480: Mar 14th 2018 at 7:11:08 PM

I'll believe that when I see it. I mean, that's what Ragnarok asserted, but it's one of those developments where it's like, "That's cool, movie, but you know none of the future movies are going to care that you did that, right?"

Like Tony blowing up all of his suits.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
BigBlackBangBro Time Stranger Since: Sep, 2016
Time Stranger
#82481: Mar 14th 2018 at 7:15:08 PM

That and Tony/Pepper marriage and Rhodey going back to being War Machine make Ironman 3 a very easy movie to skip

35 year old white man.
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#82482: Mar 14th 2018 at 7:16:17 PM

Don't forget Pepper's superpowers that are explicitly removed at the end of the film to revert her to status quo.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
TheMageofFire Since: May, 2012
#82483: Mar 14th 2018 at 7:18:41 PM

We've already seen Bruce in the Infinity War trailer, so yes, its bullshit that Bruce is "dead".

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#82484: Mar 14th 2018 at 7:22:41 PM

Don't forget Pepper's superpowers that are explicitly removed at the end of the film to revert her to status quo.

To be fair, they kinda had to do that or she'd explode.

One Strip! One Strip!
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#82485: Mar 14th 2018 at 7:23:46 PM

Banner/Hulk dying actually does seem like something that could happen. They still can't make a solo Hulk movie, and death is basically the only way the character could find some peace anyway. Ragnarok, though in a largely comedic way, also introduces the idea that Banner is effectively doomed anyway and that hes really resigned about it. I could see them adapting him as a Death Seeker.

But most importantly, he's the Avengers' biggest gun. Simply by way of either making things more difficult for the heroes and showing how screwed the universe's biggest threat is, Hulk falling is a possibility.

It's actually kind of funny: we do a lot of thinking about whether Tony or Steve is going to bite it, but people rarely bring up Banner as a possibility.

LordVatek Not really a lord of anything Since: Sep, 2014
Not really a lord of anything
#82486: Mar 14th 2018 at 7:25:12 PM

I'm still trying to figure out why the MCU is allergic to Rescue.

This song needs more love.
Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#82487: Mar 14th 2018 at 7:29:55 PM

They left it open that she wasn't removed of all Extremis powers, just kept from exploding. Whedon chose not to go forward with Rescue.

shatterstar Since: Apr, 2015 Relationship Status: I wanna know about these strangers like me
#82488: Mar 14th 2018 at 7:29:56 PM

[up][up] Because I suspect that RDJ doesn't like having another character with the same power as his character who might end up overshadow him in his own franchise.

edited 14th Mar '18 7:38:47 PM by shatterstar

AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#82489: Mar 14th 2018 at 7:31:40 PM

Doubtful. RDJ was the one who pushed for Pepper to be the one to save Tony at the end of Iron Man 3.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#82490: Mar 14th 2018 at 7:39:03 PM

Age of Ultron was weirdly committed to having just the core Avengers for most of the film and nobody else. Like how Sam shows up at Tony's party but the Falcon doesn't fight alongside them. Or how when Ultron hijacks the Iron Legion, Rhodey is tossed out a window first thing and never seen after that for the rest of the fight. Then he shows up in the Sokovia fight but is kept only to the sidelines. It feels like Whedon didn't want to bring in any of the supporting casts into the team until literally the end of the film.

edited 14th Mar '18 7:39:22 PM by Tuckerscreator

LordVatek Not really a lord of anything Since: Sep, 2014
Not really a lord of anything
#82491: Mar 14th 2018 at 7:41:35 PM

There's a logic to that I think. I imagine it gets pretty difficult to balance so many characters in a large fight like that.

This song needs more love.
comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#82492: Mar 14th 2018 at 7:42:36 PM

[up]It's on record that Joss Whedon did not want the various supporting characters in the first Avengers movie, and RDJ had to fight to get Pepper's cameo in. I am guessing that Whedon only relented and put Falcon and War Machine in Age of Ultron because he needed other characters to fill out the ranks of the new Avengers team at the end.

Otherwise, the New Avengers would've been like three people...

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#82493: Mar 14th 2018 at 7:44:17 PM

True. But it stands out in retrospect how he found an alright reason to keep Maria Hill involved in the Legion fight (just crouching on the sidelines shooting her gun) without overcomplicating the choreography, while Rhodey was "Quick! Out the window before anybody notices!"

Plus he gets shot with a direct repulsor hit to the chest in the process, which kinda blows out the tension once that reveals the Legion bots don't actually have any lethal weapons.

edited 14th Mar '18 7:46:13 PM by Tuckerscreator

shatterstar Since: Apr, 2015 Relationship Status: I wanna know about these strangers like me
#82494: Mar 14th 2018 at 7:45:58 PM

[up][up] The more I think about it, the more I feel more confident with the Russo Brothers handling the two Avengers movie as their final result (Civil War) feel much more like an ensemble piece then Whedon's.

edited 14th Mar '18 7:46:18 PM by shatterstar

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#82495: Mar 14th 2018 at 7:54:36 PM

There is a tricky balance to determining what characters are most valuable for a fight and which ones can be shelved. Civil War was pretty good at attaining that balance, as it managed to pull two decent duels against Iron Man by emphasizing the difference between him holding back and him going all out for the kill. Or how it sneakily chose Black Widow to disappear from the airport fight via the distraction of all the other flashier characters, so when she abruptly reappears again the viewer reaction isn't "why she was wasted" and instead "oops we forgot to keep track of the spy..."

edited 14th Mar '18 7:56:38 PM by Tuckerscreator

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#82496: Mar 14th 2018 at 8:06:33 PM

I'm still trying to figure out why the MCU is allergic to Rescue.

Because giving Pepper a suit and having her be a self-sufficient heroine in her own right would get in the way of writing her as a very traditional love interest, which Marvel still has a fixation on with the occasional exception.

I've mentioned before that the "compromise" they went with in IM 3 - having Pepper be variably a source of manpain, a hostage or an ineffectual prop, but with two moments of limited badassery (one of which was mostly her delivering Tony's suit to him, and the other of which was more ridiculous and overblown than effective) - was insincere and didn't really help.

edited 14th Mar '18 8:06:59 PM by KnownUnknown

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#82497: Mar 14th 2018 at 8:47:47 PM

[up][up]Yeah the only character I feel wasn't used well was Vision, who just kinda disappears until he's needed at the end.

Flying Brick characters can be hard to use properly in an ensemble.

edited 14th Mar '18 8:48:26 PM by comicwriter

MedusaStone Since: Jan, 2015
#82498: Mar 14th 2018 at 9:45:22 PM

Okay, so what I took away from all this is Tony Stark fucked everything up in-universe, and Joss Whedon fucked everything up out-of-universe tongue.

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#82499: Mar 14th 2018 at 9:50:17 PM

Tony only fucked up like 70% of things. A nice comfortable lead but there's still room for people like Drax to fuck up. Or for Hydra to have culpability for their own actions like murder and such. Not to mention Hank Pym.

And Tony only is responsible for more bad things than others because he gets more screentime.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
KJMackley Since: Jan, 2001
#82500: Mar 14th 2018 at 11:10:56 PM

Well after Iron Man 3 the MCU doesn't seem hugely invested in Iron Man-centric movies anyway, if a War Machine movie isn't on the docket they aren't going to go for a Rescue movie. Creating a sidekick movie is a logistical nightmare for studio and the audience, as it causes all sorts of questions about why the big name hero is now a supporting character (if at all). Homecoming did a good job reiterating that it is a Spider-Man movie by letting Tony show up at key moments of the story but otherwise make it understandable (and not forced) why he isn't next to Peter every step of the way.

The alternative is to remove pretty much all the connective elements between different characters so that they don't complicate the character and their story. That can work, The Dark Knight Saga has Batman as the only superhero and about 1/4 of his regular supporting cast (no actual Robins, all his tech guys were rolled into Lucius, all police allies rolled into Gordon), but you also risk removing a lot of what makes the character interesting. Steel removed all connections to Superman, and there wasn't much left to the character without that hero worship element. So, going back on topic, giving Pepper a movie as Rescue would require you to take Tony largely out of the story, and his existence is sort of what would sell the movie at all.


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