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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
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If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#82351: Mar 13th 2018 at 7:12:34 PM

[up][up][up]

Something poorly conveyed by the film if that's the intent, then.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
shatterstar Since: Apr, 2015 Relationship Status: I wanna know about these strangers like me
#82352: Mar 13th 2018 at 7:12:35 PM

Let's hope the Russo brother handles that romance more maturity than Joss "playing hide the zucchini" Whedon. It's an element that is disliked by almost everyone.

edited 13th Mar '18 7:12:43 PM by shatterstar

Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#82353: Mar 13th 2018 at 7:12:47 PM

For the last goddamn time, her being unable to have children was just to relate to Bruce's inability to have children, and had absolutely nothing to do with both of them claiming to be monsters. Bruce is a monster because of the Hulk, and Natasha is a monster because of her bodycount.

I'm pretty sure this is what Joss Whedon meant to say but it's not all that well-presented.

unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#82354: Mar 13th 2018 at 7:12:53 PM

@Drag:Well, if you take acount the moments they have in the first avenger movie You could said there is something there about being outcast and not understood.

@Gaon:And by Matt murdock you mean foggy, because matt will abandone the case because something something space ninjas.

edited 13th Mar '18 7:14:24 PM by unknowing

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#82355: Mar 13th 2018 at 7:13:22 PM

99% of everything in Age of Ultron is poorly presented.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
LordVatek Not really a lord of anything Since: Sep, 2014
Not really a lord of anything
#82356: Mar 13th 2018 at 7:14:22 PM

I'm not really expecting to be much more than Unresolved Sexual Tension. If it goes beyond that then I just hope it's not as poorly done.

edited 13th Mar '18 7:15:16 PM by LordVatek

This song needs more love.
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#82357: Mar 13th 2018 at 7:14:58 PM

Well, you must not have been paying attention during that scene, then, because those two parts of that conversation are clearly separated from each other and different topics of the bigger conversation about why they should/shouldn't be together.

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#82358: Mar 13th 2018 at 7:15:00 PM

Damn, this thread is moving fast.

The Russos have shown in the past that they, unlike everyone else in the MCU apparently, have a decent handle on how to make Widow at least a relatively engaging character, so I'm going to be cautious rather than distrustful for now.

Also:

Amusingly Tony is a very low bar to surpass.

  • Tony: "... and remember, whatever happens, no matter how much you need a pick-me-up, don't stick a dangerous and obviously toxic substance into your body because it might make you feel better."
  • Peter: <hides Man-Spider arms> "Uh.. yeah. Sure thing, boss. Never gonna be that stupid..."

unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#82359: Mar 13th 2018 at 7:15:24 PM

[up][up][up]I feel it will more resentment, after all She did kick Banner to get the hulk.

edited 13th Mar '18 7:16:19 PM by unknowing

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#82360: Mar 13th 2018 at 7:16:15 PM

Well, if you take acount the moments they have in the first avenger movie You could said there is something there about being outcast and not understood.

Maybe, but Age of Ultron still felt like a huge jump in the nature of their relationship and it wasn't very convincing. As evidenced by most people disliking it.

AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#82361: Mar 13th 2018 at 7:16:36 PM

[up][up][up][up]

Or maybe...Whedon was shit at presenting it. That's another likely solution.

edited 13th Mar '18 7:16:42 PM by AdricDePsycho

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#82362: Mar 13th 2018 at 7:17:28 PM

[up][up]Oh sure, im saying there is clearly a line that wheedon intented, just made very clunky as hell.

I mean, I feel the core concept of two outcast who dosent get their own power well is very easy to write, now whatever that ship can be save is another thing enterely.

edited 13th Mar '18 7:17:46 PM by unknowing

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#82363: Mar 13th 2018 at 7:20:41 PM

I hate the Bruce-Natasha romance for many reasons, but I honestly don't get the controversy over that specific line, or the notion that it was somehow too vague or not presented properly.

I understood on my first viewing the "monster" line was in regard to her assassin work, not her infertility. I don't get how anybody paying even the slightest bit of attention could mistake the context of it.

edited 13th Mar '18 7:21:04 PM by Anomalocaris20

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#82364: Mar 13th 2018 at 7:21:25 PM

Man Murdock v. Xandar sounds awesome as Hell.

edited 13th Mar '18 7:27:59 PM by slimcoder

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#82365: Mar 13th 2018 at 7:21:41 PM

I'm sure the Russos will handle it better but I'm just not really on board with the relationship on principle. I'd rather they just have both of them move on from it ASAP.

Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#82366: Mar 13th 2018 at 7:22:05 PM

[up]x3 Agreed, I also thought it was referring to the way she was brought up.

I didn't like the romance either since it came sort of out of left field and... well, she came across as fairly vulnerable and direct when it seems like she would flirt in a different way, if you ask me. It felt inconsistent.

edited 13th Mar '18 7:22:21 PM by Sigilbreaker26

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#82367: Mar 13th 2018 at 7:22:59 PM

Changing the scope of Widow and Banner's relationship between Avengers movies is a very obvious but also very shallow move: "they had a few meaningful moments in the first movie, so why don't we just rewrite into an offscreen romance and give them something to do that way!"

It's the kind of creative decision that gets tossed around because "characters interact, let's romance 'em" seems like a no brainer offhand, but then doesn't happen because on second thought it's clunky as hell. It's the kind of thing fanfics are made of, and I'm still really surprised it happened in the first place.

But since it is out there, of course it's going to be important again. They can't just Ragnarok that and erase the whole thing with a single line of dialogue: it's the last important thing Banner did on Earth, and part of the reason he didn't want to live on the planet any more. We just have to trust that a more level creative head can make it into something that works.

Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#82368: Mar 13th 2018 at 7:23:29 PM

I'd like to see that, actually. A courtroom drama set on Xandar.

Imagine that but in space.

Matt Murdock: Were you aware your mechanic body augmentations were hazardous to your children?

Thanos: uh...

The Other': Objection!

Matt Murdock: I'll rephrase: what was attractive about The Sons of Thanos?

Thanos: They were strong. Durable....

edited 13th Mar '18 7:23:51 PM by Gaon

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#82369: Mar 13th 2018 at 7:24:00 PM

[up][up][up][up][up][up]Because it tie her feritily to her monster condition which is awfull.

Also, it misunderstood the nature of Natasha, Hulk is a monster because he cannot be control by anyone, no even Bruce, whatever he goes, disaster follow.

Meanwhile Natasha is or rather was a tool, bend by someone else into something else, you can make sense the whole ferlity by the fact that her life take that away for her without her consent in a way that the accident remove banner hability to have a normal life.

But their nature ate not the same, in any damn way are the same.

edited 13th Mar '18 7:26:04 PM by unknowing

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#82370: Mar 13th 2018 at 7:26:06 PM

Man Murdock v. Xandar (wish I knew how to italicize that) sounds awesome as Hell.

To italicize, surround the desired words with double apostrophes.

''italic'' becomes italic.

While we're at it, '''three apostrophes''' makes things bold, and '''''five''''' makes things bold and italic.

And that has been your lesson in Tvtropes markup.

edited 13th Mar '18 7:27:28 PM by Anomalocaris20

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#82371: Mar 13th 2018 at 7:28:18 PM

[up] Yo I did it.

Thanks homes. [tup]

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#82372: Mar 13th 2018 at 7:30:49 PM

Well, I just re-watched the scene. I will concede that it could've been written a little bit better, them bonding over both feeling like outcasts because of their history of extreme violence is punctuated by them bonding over not being able to have kids and then the monster line is at the end of the scene. It's also not "I can't have kids which makes me a monster" and more "the Red Room took away my humanity, even my ability to have and care for a family of my own, just to make me into the perfect killing machine, which I am, which makes me a monster".

The focus could've been a little clearer, but I still think it's clearly not "sterilization = monster" but it is "being raised and altered from childhood to be the ultimate killer = monster".

unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#82373: Mar 13th 2018 at 7:31:47 PM

Gaon: we all know how that would end, right?

Matt: so you honor, this case is clearly......foggy, continue for me.

Foggy: why what?, no, why?

Matt: I feel ninjas, I need to go.

Foggy: no, dont let me here with this people!, the racoon is going to kill me, matt!,MATT!.........

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
Whowho Since: May, 2012
#82374: Mar 13th 2018 at 7:31:49 PM

Dang, I miss Matt being a Lawyer.

Concerning Green Widow, I could understand why the two characters would make the mistake of flirting with each other. (Bruce is pretty much the only civilian in her life, and Nat is prettyuch the only woman I'm his life) but I think they both deserve to realise they shouldn't fling themselves at the first avaliable person.

I'd rather the female avengers weren't all defined by their romances with men. Nat has plenty of reason to stay single. Meanwhile Wanda is gonna shack up with Vision and Hope with Scott.

wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#82375: Mar 13th 2018 at 7:33:46 PM

Yeah, I get what Whedon was trying to do with the sterility scene, but he bungled it very badly. It was an unnecessary element of forced drama, the emphasis on Widow’s tragic past reeked of “what’s her damage”, and it added nothing of value to the film.

And as a person who is sterile, it was a jarring and cringeworthy attempt at depth. I literally did a double take- surely, surely they wouldn’t be THAT hamfisted and terrible, surely not...


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