Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules
still apply.
- This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
- While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread
. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
- Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.
If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.
Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM
I'm pretty sure this is what Joss Whedon meant to say but it's not all that well-presented.
@Drag:Well, if you take acount the moments they have in the first avenger movie You could said there is something there about being outcast and not understood.
@Gaon:And by Matt murdock you mean foggy, because matt will abandone the case because something something space ninjas.
edited 13th Mar '18 7:14:24 PM by unknowing
"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"I'm not really expecting to be much more than Unresolved Sexual Tension. If it goes beyond that then I just hope it's not as poorly done.
edited 13th Mar '18 7:15:16 PM by LordVatek
This song needs more love.Damn, this thread is moving fast.
The Russos have shown in the past that they, unlike everyone else in the MCU apparently, have a decent handle on how to make Widow at least a relatively engaging character, so I'm going to be cautious rather than distrustful for now.
Also:
- Tony: "... and remember, whatever happens, no matter how much you need a pick-me-up, don't stick a dangerous and obviously toxic substance into your body because it might make you feel better."
- Peter: <hides Man-Spider arms> "Uh.. yeah. Sure thing, boss. Never gonna be that stupid..."
Maybe, but Age of Ultron still felt like a huge jump in the nature of their relationship and it wasn't very convincing. As evidenced by most people disliking it.
![]()
Oh sure, im saying there is clearly a line that wheedon intented, just made very clunky as hell.
I mean, I feel the core concept of two outcast who dosent get their own power well is very easy to write, now whatever that ship can be save is another thing enterely.
edited 13th Mar '18 7:17:46 PM by unknowing
"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"I hate the Bruce-Natasha romance for many reasons, but I honestly don't get the controversy over that specific line, or the notion that it was somehow too vague or not presented properly.
I understood on my first viewing the "monster" line was in regard to her assassin work, not her infertility. I don't get how anybody paying even the slightest bit of attention could mistake the context of it.
edited 13th Mar '18 7:21:04 PM by Anomalocaris20
You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
x3 Agreed, I also thought it was referring to the way she was brought up.
I didn't like the romance either since it came sort of out of left field and... well, she came across as fairly vulnerable and direct when it seems like she would flirt in a different way, if you ask me. It felt inconsistent.
edited 13th Mar '18 7:22:21 PM by Sigilbreaker26
"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"Changing the scope of Widow and Banner's relationship between Avengers movies is a very obvious but also very shallow move: "they had a few meaningful moments in the first movie, so why don't we just rewrite into an offscreen romance and give them something to do that way!"
It's the kind of creative decision that gets tossed around because "characters interact, let's romance 'em" seems like a no brainer offhand, but then doesn't happen because on second thought it's clunky as hell. It's the kind of thing fanfics are made of, and I'm still really surprised it happened in the first place.
But since it is out there, of course it's going to be important again. They can't just Ragnarok that and erase the whole thing with a single line of dialogue: it's the last important thing Banner did on Earth, and part of the reason he didn't want to live on the planet any more. We just have to trust that a more level creative head can make it into something that works.
Imagine that but in space.
Matt Murdock: Were you aware your mechanic body augmentations were hazardous to your children?
Thanos: uh...
The Other': Objection!
Matt Murdock: I'll rephrase: what was attractive about The Sons of Thanos?
Thanos: They were strong. Durable....
edited 13th Mar '18 7:23:51 PM by Gaon
"All you Fascists bound to lose."![]()
![]()
![]()
![]()
![]()
Because it tie her feritily to her monster condition which is awfull.
Also, it misunderstood the nature of Natasha, Hulk is a monster because he cannot be control by anyone, no even Bruce, whatever he goes, disaster follow.
Meanwhile Natasha is or rather was a tool, bend by someone else into something else, you can make sense the whole ferlity by the fact that her life take that away for her without her consent in a way that the accident remove banner hability to have a normal life.
But their nature ate not the same, in any damn way are the same.
edited 13th Mar '18 7:26:04 PM by unknowing
"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"To italicize, surround the desired words with double apostrophes.
''italic'' becomes italic.
While we're at it, '''three apostrophes''' makes things bold, and '''''five''''' makes things bold and italic.
And that has been your lesson in Tvtropes markup.
edited 13th Mar '18 7:27:28 PM by Anomalocaris20
You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!Well, I just re-watched the scene. I will concede that it could've been written a little bit better, them bonding over both feeling like outcasts because of their history of extreme violence is punctuated by them bonding over not being able to have kids and then the monster line is at the end of the scene. It's also not "I can't have kids which makes me a monster" and more "the Red Room took away my humanity, even my ability to have and care for a family of my own, just to make me into the perfect killing machine, which I am, which makes me a monster".
The focus could've been a little clearer, but I still think it's clearly not "sterilization = monster" but it is "being raised and altered from childhood to be the ultimate killer = monster".
Gaon: we all know how that would end, right?
Matt: so you honor, this case is clearly......foggy, continue for me.
Foggy: why what?, no, why?
Matt: I feel ninjas, I need to go.
Foggy: no, dont let me here with this people!, the racoon is going to kill me, matt!,MATT!.........
"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"Dang, I miss Matt being a Lawyer.
Concerning Green Widow, I could understand why the two characters would make the mistake of flirting with each other. (Bruce is pretty much the only civilian in her life, and Nat is prettyuch the only woman I'm his life) but I think they both deserve to realise they shouldn't fling themselves at the first avaliable person.
I'd rather the female avengers weren't all defined by their romances with men. Nat has plenty of reason to stay single. Meanwhile Wanda is gonna shack up with Vision and Hope with Scott.
Yeah, I get what Whedon was trying to do with the sterility scene, but he bungled it very badly. It was an unnecessary element of forced drama, the emphasis on Widow’s tragic past reeked of “what’s her damage”, and it added nothing of value to the film.
And as a person who is sterile, it was a jarring and cringeworthy attempt at depth. I literally did a double take- surely, surely they wouldn’t be THAT hamfisted and terrible, surely not...

Something poorly conveyed by the film if that's the intent, then.
Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?