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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
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If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#82251: Mar 13th 2018 at 11:56:33 AM

I seem to recall that Odin is leader of the Nine Realms, which are under Asgard’s “protection.”

edited 13th Mar '18 12:00:23 PM by wisewillow

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#82252: Mar 13th 2018 at 12:08:37 PM

Yep. Asgard supposedly keeps the peace among the Nine Realms. There's an implication with Hela's reveal that this is basically defined as Asgard being like, "Hey guys, we run this joint now. Here are the rules we laid down. Please adjust your culture accordingly. Also, you owe us taxes now. Hey, have you seen how cool our culture is? You're not invited to participate, but y'know, you can look. In case you want to see what real culture is like."

Which really puts Loki's attempt at straight-up genociding a Realm in a new and exciting light, doesn't it? Maybe Thor really is the adopted kid after all.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#82253: Mar 13th 2018 at 1:05:49 PM

I think the protection thing isn't quite as malevolent as you're making it out to be. Between Surtur, the Kree, the Frost Giants, and the Dark Elves it seems like the Nine Realms have their fair share of violent would be conquerors. Odin seems to have kept most of them in check for thousands of years. It's even stated that Earth would have been wiped out long ago if the Asgardians hadn't been watching over it.

edited 13th Mar '18 1:06:00 PM by Kostya

Whowho Since: May, 2012
#82254: Mar 13th 2018 at 1:19:50 PM

I did the math, Thor and Steve are tied for best hero, given they both have saved Earth four times and have created zero villains.

Tony has saved the earth twice and created eight villains.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#82255: Mar 13th 2018 at 1:46:44 PM

I keep telling all of you that Tony Stark is the true enemy of the Earth.

The rest of the Avengers are slowly realizing what Wanda learned when she read his mind.

Thanos is obviously there to stop him before he reaches the rest of the universe.

One Strip! One Strip!
Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#82256: Mar 13th 2018 at 2:16:16 PM

[up][up] Eight? Really, that many?

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
NTG Since: Aug, 2014
LordVatek Not really a lord of anything Since: Sep, 2014
Not really a lord of anything
#82258: Mar 13th 2018 at 2:40:21 PM

Zemo is probably more on Tony because it's just an extension of Ultron.

This song needs more love.
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#82259: Mar 13th 2018 at 2:48:39 PM

7 Degrees of Tony Stark: Villain Edition.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Whowho Since: May, 2012
#82260: Mar 13th 2018 at 3:33:02 PM

Iron Monger, Justin Hammer, True!Fake!Manderine, Ultron, Scarlet Witch, Quicksilver, Zemo, Vulture.

Dr.XXX The Mad Doctor Since: Aug, 2014
The Mad Doctor
#82261: Mar 13th 2018 at 3:36:10 PM

Collateral damage-wise, Tony probably wins out as well. A city in the sky isn't cheap to replace real estate wise.

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#82262: Mar 13th 2018 at 3:45:55 PM

To be fair, Tony’s Dad has more to do with Obidiah than he did. Tony just gave him a really big gun to fire when the law inevitably caught up with him.

edited 13th Mar '18 3:47:58 PM by KnownUnknown

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#82263: Mar 13th 2018 at 3:56:31 PM

Howard Stark created quite a few villains. Obadiah Stane, Ivan Vanko, Tony Stark...

edited 13th Mar '18 3:56:43 PM by Anomalocaris20

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#82264: Mar 13th 2018 at 4:03:56 PM

This feels like "The Trial of Batman" from BTAS.

Of these, only Ultron, Zemo and Killian are really Tony's fault, since he built the former against everyone's advice and the latter two are a result of his reckless and/or asshole attitude.

Stane and Hammer stole his tech to be evil. He didn't exactly give it to them.

How are Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver his fault?

Don't know about Vulture, haven't seen Homecoming yet.

edited 13th Mar '18 4:05:05 PM by Sigilbreaker26

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#82265: Mar 13th 2018 at 4:04:57 PM

He's also one of the people who created SHIELD and then let HYDRA take over. Though granted, at least Howard apparently figured it out (and got killed for it).

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#82266: Mar 13th 2018 at 4:06:44 PM

[up][up] Stark is responsible for Vulture.

Also Quicksilver & Witch's village was ravaged by Starktech. They outright tell this to Ultron.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#82267: Mar 13th 2018 at 4:30:23 PM

Iron Monger

...See, I was gonna say Stane isn't really Tony's fault, but then again, everything is Tony's fault, so never mind.tongue

Glad you all agree with me. Fortunately, Thanos and the other Avengers will do the smart thing and team up to take out the greater threat.

Then they can fight each other, as is logical.

One Strip! One Strip!
unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#82268: Mar 13th 2018 at 4:31:53 PM

"Collateral damage-wise, Tony probably wins out as well. A city in the sky isn't cheap to replace real estate wise. "

Is clear that Civil war REALLY try to not mention the whole fact about Sokovia to make Zemo the villian, otherwise we will cheer him out as he separate the avenger away(even when to be fair, they did that themselves).

Also, while tony is clearly the most recurring antagonist on marvel, he didnt kill someone mother....right bucky?.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#82269: Mar 13th 2018 at 4:37:23 PM

I'd "blame" Tony for Wanda and Pietro, Toomes, and Zemo. Kind of would split the blame for Zemo between Tony and Steve. Because while Tony gets primary blame for Sarkovia, I get the feeling that discovering the stuff about Bucky was not just something Zemo used against the Avengers, but also something he considered an illustration of their lack of accountability. And everything Bucky related can be "blamed" on Steve.

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#82270: Mar 13th 2018 at 4:41:49 PM

In all seriousness, blaming Tony for Toomes is kinda extreme. The worst he did there was gobble up a job that could have gone to blue-collar crews like Toomes', and considering he was contracted to do so it's more the fault of the US government trusting him with alien metals more than they trust a bunch of scrappers.

That doesn't make him culpable for Toomes becoming a bird.

edited 13th Mar '18 4:42:37 PM by Anomalocaris20

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
Whowho Since: May, 2012
#82271: Mar 13th 2018 at 4:41:56 PM

I'd argue that Tony is at least complicit in Iron Monger, given that Stane managed to do it all under Tony's nose for nearly two decades.

Edit: I agree that the only person responsible for Toomes is Toomes. The guy's FIRST THOUGHT on loosing A SINGLE CONTRACT was "build deadly weapons out of alien tech and go into arms dealing" guy likes to think he's being some kind of rebel but he's just a crook with a weak excuse.

edited 13th Mar '18 4:44:44 PM by Whowho

TheAirman Brightness from The vicinity of an area adjacent to a location Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Historians will say we were good friends.
Brightness
#82272: Mar 13th 2018 at 4:47:16 PM

Yeah, Tony is at most connected to Toome's by virtue of the government taking a job away from the latter and giving it to the former. Toomes becoming a thief, arms dealer, and murderer are entirely on himself.

Edit:[nja]'d

edited 13th Mar '18 4:48:12 PM by TheAirman

PSN ID: FateSeraph | Switch friendcode: SW-0145-8835-0610 Congratulations! She/They
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#82273: Mar 13th 2018 at 4:48:46 PM

Stane has a two decade advantage on him, though.

Like. I feel like expecting a 17-year-old Tony to have the business savvy to immediately identify that Stane's secretly dealing under the table. Stane was at the company before Tony was. He was the boss in the interim between Howard's death and Tony's return. That stuff was probably going on before Tony even knew what a W-4 was.

That's the whole reason Stane hates Tony: Stark Industries is basically his baby so far as he's concerned. He's the Steve Ditko to Howard's Stan Lee, and then Howard dies, Stane takes over, everything's great, and then here comes prodigy child Stark Jr. to steal the reins back from him and take all the credit for his hard work.

Blaming Tony for Stane is like blaming an apprentice swordsmith for never noticing that the master smith uses the forge to hide his serial murders whenever the kid's not looking.

edited 13th Mar '18 4:50:19 PM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#82274: Mar 13th 2018 at 4:49:18 PM

To clarify, I was saying blame in the sense of "villain motivated by a resentment at Tony". Which describes those I mentioned (forgot to include the real fake Mandarin). But yes, Toomes is a selfish asshole who really only has himself to blame.

unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#82275: Mar 13th 2018 at 4:51:28 PM

[up]Which is kinda more funny because by Iron man two is clearly state that Tony dosent care that much about the company by bieng a scientist.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"

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