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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

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    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#82226: Mar 13th 2018 at 8:43:47 AM

I have to said: those this movie or marvel remenber that Loki work for thanos? and that if threat him to find him and killing if he fail to conquer earth?

I mean, I feel thanos is being reaaaaaally slow in taking his vengance.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#82227: Mar 13th 2018 at 8:51:06 AM

This is what I mean when I say that Ragnarok makes no effort to include the victims' perspective. Because it's about a colonial nation being colonized, the victims are the descendants of the colonizers. The people they victimized are not invited to the discussion table; it's just a bunch of white people going, "Colonialism is bad because it's happening to us!" So, basically, Independence Day.

So...should Hela have recruited some dudes from the other Nine Realms in order to show how they viewed things?

edited 13th Mar '18 8:51:23 AM by HandsomeRob

One Strip! One Strip!
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#82228: Mar 13th 2018 at 8:53:06 AM

[up][up] Most likely Loki faking his dead worked for Thanos....and he was busy looking for the power stone anyway.

[up] Bad idea. That would have effectively turned the victims into villains. It would have been better if she had found help from the Asgardian alt-right.

edited 13th Mar '18 8:54:00 AM by Swanpride

Punisher286 Since: Jan, 2016
#82229: Mar 13th 2018 at 8:53:38 AM

I kind of feel like Thanos just doesn't give that much of a crap about Loki. I mean even in Avengers Loki was mocked for his "petty" ambitions and it was clear that Thanos had far bigger plans in mind. I mean we never even see Thanos interacting with Loki in person (whereas he does interact with Ronan in person), which is telling.

So it'd be a case of Loki walking up to him, Tesseract in hand, and Thanos going "oh yeah, you again. Oh there it is, ok then."

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#82230: Mar 13th 2018 at 8:56:28 AM

So...should Hela have recruited some dudes from the other Nine Realms in order to show how they viewed things?

I'd say Thor should have. As others have proposed, this could have been resolved by connecting Hela's colonialism to Sakaar, linking the two plot threads and having the people Thor rallies be those victims whose voices should be heard.

Like. Imagine if the "Asgard is a people, not a place," narrative came from Korg instead of Odin, allowing Thor to deliberately and knowingly act on the wisdom of those who've been displaced before him.

But it doesn't. Korg is just there to make some funny jokes. The movie doesn't care what he thinks.

edited 13th Mar '18 8:56:49 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#82232: Mar 13th 2018 at 9:05:49 AM

If you want to make the imperalism angle better here are some ideas:

-Try to not make Hela bloodthirstiness so obvious, it make her sound less that a colonizer and more of a warlord who need war(Really she is pretty much a female shao khan, she is one step of saying "IS THAT YOUR BEST?"), almost make her feel that asgard is ungracefull to her by "I give them glory and in turn they cover ashamed"

-Yeah, you need to tie Sakaar to asgard someone, it help with the disconection between the two plot, after all Sakaar look the kind of place it would help monster to get stuf as long it can profit for it.

-And for last, I dont know if should be thor choice to blow the whole thing out, if have a shaky conexion to asgard in the first place.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#82233: Mar 13th 2018 at 9:07:49 AM

Rob: If we want to take this metaphor further that's the equivalent of a bunch of Africans attacking the US as retribution for slavery. I feel like that would be even worse.

@Thor recruiting other members of the Nine Realms: Now that's something I would have liked to see that.

edited 13th Mar '18 9:10:22 AM by Kostya

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#82234: Mar 13th 2018 at 9:11:13 AM

I don't think this is actually accurate because the mcu wiki says that Korg's revolt that got him sentenced to gladiating was against the Grandmaster. But I initially thought that Korg was a citizen of the Nine Realms that got exiled for trying to stir up a revolution. My evidence being that other Kronan that Thor killed in Dark World seeming to indicate that they were native to or present in the Nine Realms. If that was the case, then Asgard does have a connection to Sakaar what with Korg being intentionally exiled there and Valkyrie ending up there.

Its tenuous though. I agree a more direct link between Asgard and Sakaar would have been good. Can't be one of the Nine Realms without ending in a gard or a heim but could have been a place Asgard had influenced all imperialistically.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#82235: Mar 13th 2018 at 9:17:17 AM

[up]I feel sakaar should be a place to send the undersiable, kinda like asutralia was at first, you how how devolpt country abuse undevolpt ones to get weatlh? kind like that.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#82236: Mar 13th 2018 at 9:18:06 AM

Would be kinda fitting. The big ol spaceship Korg's group steals is named after an Australian car.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#82237: Mar 13th 2018 at 9:22:30 AM

[up][up] Hela: "Korgs come from Sakaar, as everyone knows. And Sakaar is populated entirely by criminals. Criminals are used to have people not trust them, as you are not trusted by me. So I clearly cannot choose the Asgard in front of me."

edited 13th Mar '18 9:23:01 AM by KnownUnknown

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#82238: Mar 13th 2018 at 9:23:19 AM

I absolutely want to see someone play a shell game with entire worlds now

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#82239: Mar 13th 2018 at 9:27:42 AM

What I want to know is how Korg knows what rock-paper-scissors is and what vampires are.

unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#82240: Mar 13th 2018 at 9:30:19 AM

Maybe s just me but I really want to know Skrone history with his family, I mantain the stonemason asgardian from agent of Shield is his father.

I mean just a headcanon but good as any other

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#82241: Mar 13th 2018 at 9:33:46 AM

[up][up]I believe on his world there are species of paper men and scissor men as well.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#82242: Mar 13th 2018 at 9:38:00 AM

The paper men are infamous for their stealth assassin techniques of silent asphyxiation.

Nightwire Since: Feb, 2010
#82243: Mar 13th 2018 at 9:39:10 AM

Well, according to Drax, Sakaarans are all paper people...

unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#82244: Mar 13th 2018 at 9:41:02 AM

[up]Acording to Ronan, so was drax wife and childrentongue

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#82245: Mar 13th 2018 at 9:43:08 AM

Infinity War set visit.

edited 13th Mar '18 9:52:08 AM by comicwriter

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#82246: Mar 13th 2018 at 9:47:39 AM

I'd say Thor should have. As others have proposed, this could have been resolved by connecting Hela's colonialism to Sakaar, linking the two plot threads and having the people Thor rallies be those victims whose voices should be heard. Like. Imagine if the "Asgard is a people, not a place," narrative came from Korg instead of Odin, allowing Thor to deliberately and knowingly act on the wisdom of those who've been displaced before him. But it doesn't. Korg is just there to make some funny jokes. The movie doesn't care what he thinks.

Now that is a good idea.

Rob: If we want to take this metaphor further that's the equivalent of a bunch of Africans attacking the US as retribution for slavery. I feel like that would be even worse.

Yeah. You are right. Thor recruiting those who were victims of Asgard is a much better idea. Shame the director didn't think of it.

One Strip! One Strip!
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#82247: Mar 13th 2018 at 9:59:51 AM

Exactly. Including the displaced refugee logic isn't a bad thing, but having it come not from an oppressed people but from the Colonizer-in-Chief just being like, "This is a cool thing I came up with while sitting on my throne of skulls. It helps me sleep at night by reminding me that those people didn't really lose anything if you think about it!" kinda is.

edited 13th Mar '18 10:00:24 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
RavenWilder Since: Apr, 2009
#82248: Mar 13th 2018 at 11:00:37 AM

Again, I don't get why everyone is reading a colonialism metaphor into the movie.

Yes, Hela is a brutal imperialist from Asgard's past. But given all the Nordic imagery, and the fact that her imperialism seems mostly concerned with plundering riches from other worlds, with no mention of actually establishing colonies anywhere else, you could just as easily (and with more evidence to back you up) argue she's supposed to represent an ancient Viking raider showing up in modern day Scandinavia.

I just don't see what about Hela is specifically colonialist in nature, rather than just broadly and generically imperialist.

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#82249: Mar 13th 2018 at 11:28:54 AM

[up]I've been staying out if this argument because of how little I care about it, but if you've been paying attention you would have seen writing pieces on the matter linked by wisewillow.

edited 13th Mar '18 11:29:10 AM by VeryMelon

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#82250: Mar 13th 2018 at 11:30:41 AM

The two go hand-in-hand. Colonialism is how imperialism plunders riches from other nations. An empire is not a barbarian tribe, traveling from place to place looting, pillaging, and then running off home with the spoils. Empires seek to expand their borders, spreading the sphere of their influence.

That means colonies. It means putting your people in their lands. It means setting up puppet hierarchies where their civilization is now subordinate to yours. Demanding taxes and/or making them work to produce wares for your benefit. Butchering regions that get uppity as a warning to others. Or just straight-up killing them all to make more room for your growing population.

When barbarians raid your village, they take your stuff and go home. When empires raid your village, they plant a flag and go, "You're mine now. Forever."

edited 13th Mar '18 11:31:38 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.

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