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Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM
And the one we got would have been a better movie if Marvel had been willing to throw out more of Wright's script.
They thought they could salvage it. They were mistaken.
My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.The mere existence of Hope indicates that the first movie should have been called "The Wasp", and the second "The Wasp and Ant-Man".
Ant-Man's main issue is that the character's reason for existing entirely boils down to having Douglas' character refuse to give the suit to the infinitely more competent Hope, which is a bit patronizing - and the worst part is that they justified it by stuffing her equally competent mother into the fridge. It's a sexist one-two punch.
edited 7th Mar '18 5:29:09 AM by Julep
The "heist guy" could have advised the much more cool-headed and technologically-literate Hope to pull the heist. It would be refreshing actually to have the guy be Mission Control for the Action Girl.
Does it take longer to teach someone to heist or to teach them to use shrinking technology?
Apparently the former according to Old Man Hank
I'd have said put them both in the suit. Heists can use multiple people and the training montage could have been two ways
Forever liveblogging the AvengersAlso it's a shame that Jan's "death" is a fridge because it was a pretty heroic sacrifice
But because it happens so Hank will be sad and forbid Hope from stuff it becomes all about him instead of Janet saving the world
Forever liveblogging the AvengersJanet's death is such a blatant case of Never Found the Body that I think calling it a fridge is silly.
It's in the fridge unless proven otherwise
Like the last piece of pizza
Also fridging is broader than just death and in comic book terms there's not much of a difference between dying and being resurrected years later versus being stuck in a micro verse and escaping years later. It takes you off the board either way
edited 7th Mar '18 5:57:40 AM by Bocaj
Forever liveblogging the AvengersProbably
Although Wasp is a special case since this is an adaptation. Wright took a character with decades of continuity of her own including leading the Avengers now and again and 'killed' her off in the backstory for Hank's development
edited 7th Mar '18 6:11:56 AM by Bocaj
Forever liveblogging the AvengersI'd call it Death by Origin Story if Jan's "death" had affected Scott in any way, but it didn't. It existed purely for Hank's Manpain and to justify his subsequent marginalization of Hope.
My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.I'll only be okay with it if we get a subplot in a future movie that's about Hope rescuing her mom.
(Worth noting here that one of my major pet peeves in fiction is this bizarre idea a lot of male writers have - even ones who are otherwise pretty good with female characters - that women don't interact with each other in any significant way. In the films thus far I think it's only GOTG 2 and Black Panther that haven't disappointed me there.)
Considering The Wasp is going to become a thing soon, it's highly unlikely we'll see her mom.
As for what you said about female characters, well, you need more than one female character for that to begin with. It's not a surprise it didn't happen in Avengers. Black Panther and Guardians 2 are about the only MCU movies starring two female characters or more in significant roles; in the rest, The Smurfette Principle is here in full force, except for Civil War...where the two women are in opposite teams (so that each team respects the aforementioned principle) and stuck in the middle of ten guys.
edited 7th Mar '18 7:07:59 AM by Julep
That's literally why the Bechdel Test is a thing. Some have pointed out that passing the Bechdel Test does not make a work feminist, but that's not actually the point of the Bechdel Test. It's supposed to be ridiculously easy to pass. That so many works fail this incredibly easy test is the point.
To pass the test, all a work has to do is
- Include at least two female characters.
- Who have a conversation with each other at some point.
- That isn't about a man.
If Scarlet Witch and Black Widow go out for coffee and discuss the latest sports event, the movie passes. If Pepper Potts meets Jane Foster and proposes a technological partnership between their enterprises, the movie passes. If Gamora and Nebula ever spend two minutes talking about how screwed up their childhood was, the movie passes (Good on you, Guardians 2!).
It's so easy. So, so easy. But very few movies ever pass it.
My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.What does "about a man" mean, though? Would he have to be the main subject of the conversation? I believe Nebula and Gamora bring up Thanos in their conversation (it's kind of unavoidable), but the main focus of the dialogue is how it affected them and their relationship with each other.
Oh God! Natural light!I also wonder about conversations that mention men when they're not the main subject. If two women are discussing work and a male coworker is mentioned at some point does that conversation not count? The man wasn't the main focus of the conversation.
What counts as a conversation anyway? Does it have to last for a certain amount of time? If one woman is saying everything and getting nothing but one word responses does that count?
edited 7th Mar '18 8:32:15 AM by Kostya

Had Wright not boggarted Wasp just to have her killed off, she may have been in Avengers
Food for thought
Forever liveblogging the Avengers