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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#81477: Mar 2nd 2018 at 7:05:41 AM

I remember one of the Dr. Strange comics involved the Real Life universe getting erased from existence and re-created a few hours later at the very instant it happened with no trace that it ever happened. The kind of shit blew my mind as a kid.

Luigisan98 A wandering user from Venezuelan Muscat Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: I <3 love!
A wandering user
#81478: Mar 2nd 2018 at 7:07:06 AM

[up][up][up] It's fine.

edited 2nd Mar '18 7:07:14 AM by Luigisan98

The only good fanboy, is a redeemed fanboy.
Pseudopartition Screaming Into The Void from The Cretaeceous Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
Screaming Into The Void
#81479: Mar 2nd 2018 at 7:39:03 AM

I didn't really care for the film but watching people fuck with Loki is always fun.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#81480: Mar 2nd 2018 at 8:35:00 AM

I am not saying that Iron Fist deserved a great rating, but it doesn't deserve such a low rating either.

The Doctor Strange Cameo, well, it actually depends. If they just put it in for the crossover then, meh, kind of pointless, but I don't think that they did. I am convinced that the whole scene mostly existed so that Loki could notice Doctor Strange wearing the time stone (which would make Loki the only being in the universe who has at least an idea where four of the six stones are located, since he is presumably also the one who send the aether to the collector - and Thanos himself already knows where the power stone was the last time). Also, Loki knowing that there is a wizard on earth could come in handy.

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#81481: Mar 2nd 2018 at 8:46:13 AM

I liked the cameo more than most of his movie. Strange’s schtick in the comics for the longest time was as “the cameo guy”, so this was pretty accurate to the tradition of his pop-in shenanigans.

Julep Since: Jul, 2010
#81482: Mar 2nd 2018 at 8:50:33 AM

Basically, the main reason the first episodes of a TV show are more important when it comes to critical reviews is mathematical.

When you compare reviews of a movie, all the people who wrote them have watched the movie in its entirety - okay, 99% have, with the odd "I could not stand it and left the theater", which hardly influences the total score. In that, the reviewers will match the general population, who 99 times out of 100 does not leave the theater before the movie ends - even if the movie sucks.

When you compare reviews of a show however, not everyone will bother watching it until the end. Some will give it a chance, some will just drop it. So if, say, you only pick people who saw the entire TV show to give for example a 60% rating, then it means you consider that the opinion of all those who didn't watch it until the end matters. Except it does, because the proportion of people dropping shows mid-season is far more than 1%. As long as you have watched the first episode, you have a critical opinion of a show.

And since reviewers seldom decide to start with episode 6 or a season finale, it makes the early episodes that much more important.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#81483: Mar 2nd 2018 at 10:03:26 AM

[up] I might agree concerning a network show with 20 plus episodes (and even then I feel the need to point out that a lot of cult shows didn't start particularly strong), but the Netflix shows are more structured like 13 hours movie. No reviewer would leave the movie after the first act and then write a review based on it.

Julep Since: Jul, 2010
#81484: Mar 2nd 2018 at 10:18:45 AM

But the reason movies don't last for 10 hours is that people don't want to sit for the entirety of that duration. If Netflix wants its shows to be treated like movies - then it should call them movies, remove episodes altogether and advertise them as such. Or, instead of making a 10 hours long show, craft four consecutive 2.5 hours long movies.

But if they say that they are crafting TV shows, then they will be treated by critics and viewers like TV shows, with each episode being watched sequentially...as long as they are interesting enough for you to keep going.

In the case of "cult shows with weak starts", presumably those become strong enough to drag back people that might have been miffed by the early episodes - and it means that the ratings will increase over time, and impact the RT score. Right now, JJ's score is low-ish because S2 has 7X% and the total note is an average of two points. If the season indeed takes over later on, you will see S2's score rise, and the total note rise too, before they reach their "definitive" stage.

Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#81486: Mar 2nd 2018 at 11:17:15 AM

In the case of "cult shows with weak starts", presumably those become strong enough to drag back people that might have been miffed by the early episodes - and it means that the ratings will increase over time, and impact the RT score. Right now, JJ's score is low-ish because S2 has 7X% and the total note is an average of two points. If the season indeed takes over later on, you will see S2's score rise, and the total note rise too, before they reach their "definitive" stage.

Most of those cult shows usually have something interesting in the beginning to keep the viewer watching even if they aren't 100% invested. Iron Fist has pretty much nothing of interest for the first half, and if I hadn't already decided to see all of it I probably would have dropped it.

VoidsEmpathy Emissary of the Void from Realm of In-Between Since: Jan, 2011 Relationship Status: A heart full of love
Emissary of the Void
#81487: Mar 2nd 2018 at 1:53:06 PM

Infinity War: April 27th

[DATA LOST]
Julep Since: Jul, 2010
#81488: Mar 2nd 2018 at 5:16:58 PM

I finally watched Doctor Strange.

White-washing notwithstanding, it was a gorgeous, badly written movie. The visuals were absolutely stunning, and I felt like they were going too fast for me to enjoy them, but since my sight is deficient I cannot hold it against the filmmaker who probably is using people with healthy eyes as test subjects.

Benedict Cumberbatch was playing himself and was a bit monolithic at times, but I didn't particularly mind it, and the comedic timing was alright - not the best gags but they were quite good (the Beyoncé one I really liked) and there were neither too many nor not enough. The acting overall felt subpar for a MCU movie, with no real standout aside from Wong and Rachel Mc Adams being probably the most obvious Satellite Love Interest in the MCU. And it's a shame, because I adore that actress. Has she any hope of becoming a sorcerer later so we see more of her?

The whole story was nonsensical and coincidental to the extreme. It's one thing to say that a character is gifted, it's another to have him repeatedly survive the Big Bad through sheer dumb luck or Villain Ball grabbing. And really, seeing that guy just come and master what are supposedly incredibly complex spells and concepts in a few months - if not a few hours - went way beyond my suspension of disbelief. Believe me or not, a Training montage showing him progressing in other spells than "teleporting" would have made his survival more conceivable.

So...that was about average. Not a bad moment. I'll probably have forgotten about most of it in one week.

AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#81489: Mar 2nd 2018 at 5:27:19 PM

I think the implication was he was doing this for several years but if that's the case, they didn't sell it properly. And I still insist that outside of the one scene (you know the scene, the one with those freaky goddamn hands), the effects were at best forgettable as well. Dancing bears at their finest.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#81490: Mar 2nd 2018 at 5:31:29 PM

I haven't seen Dr. Strange and I'm not exactly in a hurry to, but I feel kind of sad that it's gotten this middling reception because I was originally quite looking forward to it because I felt it had the opportunity to offer something that was actually new. Instead by all accounts it turned out to be a mediocre iron man retread.

Julep Since: Jul, 2010
#81491: Mar 2nd 2018 at 5:31:53 PM

There were so many of them that I couldn't keep track. I would prefer to watch Inception instead of this one for the effects, because the slowest pace made it easier to follow what was going on, but that might be more due to personal limitations than actual design issues.

The scenery folding and bending was interesting if maybe a bit overused. The chase in mirror NY was fun. Overall it was imaginative though, and I'm not good enough to judge quality so it looked great to me.

AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#81492: Mar 2nd 2018 at 5:38:38 PM

Doctor Strange is outright the worst film in Phase 3, which is especially sad given that all of the other films in Phase 3 rank as outright some of Marvel's best and have addressed some of their prior criticisms. Doctor Strange just feels like a Phase 2 movie that they released during Phase 3 to clean it off of the slate and get people ready for Infinity War. I still outright think it's the worst MCU film and I still stand by that, it exemplifies every damn thing people criticized the MCU for and it is guilty of all of the franchise's faults and sins, all while offering nothing new to counter criticisms and outright doing even worse stuff with the whitewashing.

And it still needed a goddamn Pink Floyd soundtrack.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
BigK1337 Since: Jun, 2012
#81493: Mar 2nd 2018 at 5:51:55 PM

[up] Worse than Incredible Hulk, Iron Man 2 and Thor Dark World? Nah. I agree its the weakest of the Third Phase films and that Strange is better as a supporting hero (unless its that Lionsgate Animated Film), but its seems far fetch to say its the worst out of the MCU films.

Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#81494: Mar 2nd 2018 at 5:52:51 PM

Agreed, Doctor Strange is no way the worst of the MCU films. It's middling, maybe even mediocre, but it's not that bad.

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#81495: Mar 2nd 2018 at 5:54:18 PM

The racism brings it down to below their levels for me. At least The Dark World had Loki to make it somewhat bearable.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#81496: Mar 2nd 2018 at 5:55:03 PM

Man I think that animated Doctor Strange movie had better magic & cooler spells than the actual live-action one.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#81497: Mar 2nd 2018 at 5:56:10 PM

Like, replacing the Ancient One with a white lady was unfortunate (and I'm more annoyed that it's predicated around trying to forget Tibet's a thing than anything else) but that's pretty much it.

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#81498: Mar 2nd 2018 at 5:56:47 PM

Doctor Strange duels Thor The Dark World for worst film in terms of being disappointed as I was watching the film. It didn't actively bore me as much as TDW did, and tosses out more godzillas to entertain the average moviegoer, but it also didn't have anything remotely as interesting as some of the Loki scenes in TDW either. Naturally both films are the ones that feel the most like they were directed by committee. There's zero ambition to them.

Iron Man 2 was bad for me in hindsight but watching it I enjoyed myself enough even if the writing was incredibly sloppy. And I actually don't dislike The Incredible Hulk. It's not particularly great and it's plodding in places but the other half of the time I was entertained.

edited 2nd Mar '18 5:58:43 PM by AlleyOop

Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#81499: Mar 2nd 2018 at 5:57:23 PM

The incredible Hulk actually has a really good villain set up and motivation it just goes nowhere.

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#81500: Mar 2nd 2018 at 5:58:40 PM

The film is boring as fuck and is so goddamn forgettable despite coming after thirteen goddamn movies that it's really hard for me to be too forgiving of it, the racism only adds to it. It's not just the whitewashing either, none of the characters are engaging except maybe Mordo and his entire turn to evil is stupid and makes no goddamn sense.

Iron Man 2 at least has some good jokes I guess, and The Incredible Hulk is more like a bizarre time piece of the early MCU before it got solidified.

edited 2nd Mar '18 5:59:44 PM by AdricDePsycho

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?

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