TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

Marvel Cinematic Universe

Go To

Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

shatterstar Since: Apr, 2015 Relationship Status: I wanna know about these strangers like me
#81401: Mar 1st 2018 at 2:36:53 PM

My guess:

5/7/21: Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 3

7/30/21: New franchise? Spider-Man 3

11/5/21: Doctor Strange 2

2/18/22: Captain Marvel? New franchise

7/29/22: Ant-Man 3? Or some new franchise (Black Widow?)

Edit: Apparently Spider-Man has a sequel in 2019.

edited 1st Mar '18 2:50:43 PM by shatterstar

KarkatTheDalek Not as angry as the name would suggest. from Somwhere in Time/Space Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
Not as angry as the name would suggest.
#81402: Mar 1st 2018 at 2:37:33 PM

I would think there would be some new heroes in there, not just sequels.

Oh God! Natural light!
BigBlackBangBro Time Stranger Since: Sep, 2016
Time Stranger
#81403: Mar 1st 2018 at 2:44:08 PM

[up][up]Spider-man 2 comes out next year. Do you mean 3?

35 year old white man.
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#81404: Mar 1st 2018 at 2:46:09 PM

[up][up][up] Don't forget that there are also dates secured for 2020. I am ready to bet that Spider-Man 2 will happen then (I think it was even confirmed). The date you picked for Captain marvel might/should be for Spider-Man 3.

edited 1st Mar '18 2:47:09 PM by Swanpride

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#81405: Mar 1st 2018 at 2:49:05 PM

Wakanda and Trump's vision of America aren't a fair comparison because only one of them is at risk of neo-colonalism.

Wakanda's the most technologically-advanced, powerful, and wealthy nation in the world. It's not a third-world or a first-world country, it's a... zeroth-world, or something. I don't think it's really a neo-colonization risk even with its borders opened.

I think the biggest difference between isolationist Wakanda and Build-the-Wall America is that Wakanda also hasn't interfered with other countries, which makes an isolationist stance less hypocritical (albeit still tribalistic and flawed from a globalist viewpoint). That and, you know, the film ends with T'challa and by extension Wakanda in general rejecting that philosophy.

edited 1st Mar '18 2:50:12 PM by Anomalocaris20

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#81406: Mar 1st 2018 at 3:34:11 PM

Also the obvious and crucial difference in geographic size and population size.

Please, no Doctor Strange 2. Please no.

Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#81407: Mar 1st 2018 at 3:35:17 PM

They'd have to up their game for Doctor Strange 2. Make it so it's not just Iron Man over and over again.

edited 1st Mar '18 3:37:16 PM by Sigilbreaker26

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#81408: Mar 1st 2018 at 3:38:18 PM

You don't want to see Dr Strange get drunk off his ass and blow up something with the eye of agamotto during his party?

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#81409: Mar 1st 2018 at 3:39:54 PM

I want more of the whacky magic stuff, that was the best part of DS 1. And more of Cloaky.

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#81410: Mar 1st 2018 at 3:40:07 PM

[up][up]Nah I’m good.

edited 1st Mar '18 3:40:20 PM by wisewillow

Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#81411: Mar 1st 2018 at 3:41:11 PM

It does beg the question, obviously they can't use Dormammu again two films in a row. So that means Baron Mordo... so is it just him going around mage killing?

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#81412: Mar 1st 2018 at 3:41:20 PM

You don't want Mordo to steal an extra cloak of levitation and become uh Mister Odd?

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#81413: Mar 1st 2018 at 3:42:13 PM

Gosh, if I can rant for a bit, that's easily the worst part of the MCU, not even how shitty the villains are but how they always have the same powers as the heroes. It's just aggravating.

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#81414: Mar 1st 2018 at 3:44:55 PM

Killmonger is the best "evil version of the hero" villain we've had so far, nobody else is really in the running.

Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#81415: Mar 1st 2018 at 3:50:46 PM

I'm fine with a sequel as long as they call it Doctor Strange-er.

Well technically Bucky has the same powers as Steve (although he's not the main villain of Winter Soldier), so he's also a good example.

And I think the various Iron Man movies have done a good job with villains having the same powerset (including if you count the MCU Vulture).

I kind of like the MCU version of Yellowjacket and think that's a decently justified take on "villain with the same powers".

Killmonger is definitely one of the better examples though.

Edit- Ah, "evil version of the hero" is a bit different than "villain with the same powerset". In that case, I'd say the good examples of that are Ironmonger, Killmonger, Ego, and Bucky. And I guess Vulture as well, since he's definitely an evil version of Tony, but not an exact match in terms of either powers or personality. And of course Ultron in the MCU is also an evil Tony. But he's a so so take on an evil Tony and a pretty bad adaptation of Ultron.

edited 1st Mar '18 3:54:06 PM by Hodor2

Beatman1 Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Gone fishin'
#81416: Mar 1st 2018 at 3:52:26 PM

I want Shuma-Gorath, actually. What about the fighting game community’s favorite tentacle monster?

AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#81417: Mar 1st 2018 at 3:53:42 PM

Would Loki or Hela count under "evil counterpart to the hero"?

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#81418: Mar 1st 2018 at 3:56:18 PM

Good question, as I like both of them.

I think Loki is more of the opposite of Thor than anything and they have an interesting sort of Hourglass Plot thing going on.

Hela is kind of like an evil version of both Thor and Loki (well, eviler in Loki's case) because of how she takes the blood knight conqueror idea both have bought into at various points and takes it farther. And while she looks and acts kind of like Loki, the overwhelming force of her powers is more like Thor.

Which makes sense, because Hela pretty much explains various moments of Odin freaking out at his sons' behavior, because we now understand he thought each of them was becoming or was another Hela.

edited 1st Mar '18 3:57:41 PM by Hodor2

Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#81419: Mar 1st 2018 at 3:57:04 PM

I would say Loki definitely does not because he has completely different powers to Thor and has a very different way of doing things.

Deadpoolrocks Since: Sep, 2010
#81420: Mar 1st 2018 at 3:59:48 PM

nightmare for a sequel to strange

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#81421: Mar 1st 2018 at 4:00:51 PM

There's a reason most of the villains of the first films use the hero's powerset; it's easier to have a supervillain's power source be the same as the hero's since it means you don't have to devote screentime to a second superpower-origin. Not to mention the idea of two people gaining superpowers in the same timeframe can come across as stretching the Willing Suspension of Disbelief.

Thor can get away with it because their powers are never really explained; they're just gods, of course they'll have weird powers.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#81422: Mar 1st 2018 at 4:06:35 PM

The Winter Soldier isn't a villain. He is a tool.

We had so far:

Ironman vs Ironmonger (though to a certain degree all villains of Ironman are a negative mirror of himself)

Captain America vs Red Skull

Shield vs Hydra

Hulk vs Abomination

Ant-man vs Yellowjacket (or the good mentee vs the bad mentee)

Black Panther vs Killmonger

Of this line-up, I think Hydra is the best villain and also the instance in which the "dark side" was explored the best, as a very real pitfall.

I don't really count Kassilius, because he is more a henchmen to Dormamamu. And the Thor villains have a too different power-set to be a dark mirror of him.

[up] The hero having to symbolically overcome his dark side is also a classic comic book plot.

edited 1st Mar '18 4:07:17 PM by Swanpride

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#81423: Mar 1st 2018 at 4:13:54 PM

Even discounting Kassilius as a mere henchmen, I would think there should be allowance for operating under the same power system.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#81424: Mar 1st 2018 at 4:18:00 PM

A lot of the critics I saw said they were fine with Killmonger being part of this trend again because in this case, it was thematically consistent with what the movie was going for (What T'Challa thinks Wakanda represents vs. what Killmonger does, complete with Killmonger's mask having a more aggressive face) and that Killmonger was simply given much better writing than someone like Yellowjacket, Whiplash or Kaecilius.

Kaecilius is the one example that really is sore for me, though. In almost every other case I can see what they were going for (Ant-Man shrinks, so his bad guys is someone else who can shrink and fight him on his own turf, Abomination is someone powerful enough to go toe to toe with Hulk, ect.), but with Strange, given that his powers are less physical than someone like Black Panther or Hulk, I feel they could have gotten away with a more esoteric threat like Shuma-Gorath or just Dormammu outright.

Basically, the overabundance of Evil Counterparts is sort of a Necessary Weasel for a genre that has an expectation of an epic fight scene, but Strange doesn't really have that excuse.

edited 1st Mar '18 4:18:44 PM by comicwriter

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#81425: Mar 1st 2018 at 4:18:21 PM

In fairness to the MCU it's not like most of these villains had drastically different powers in the comics. Evil Counterpart is a pretty common trope in superhero stories.


Total posts: 186,763
Top