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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
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If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#81251: Feb 27th 2018 at 11:31:17 AM

The Silver Surfer?

edited 27th Feb '18 11:31:24 AM by KnownUnknown

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#81252: Feb 27th 2018 at 11:33:43 AM

The MCU doesn't need the X-men.

Perhaps not, but if you think marvel and Disney are just gonna sit on them and not milk that, you’re dreaming.

edited 27th Feb '18 11:34:25 AM by comicwriter

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#81253: Feb 27th 2018 at 11:36:01 AM

It certainly helps that a lot of the X-Men characters - and their many, many periphery characters - have strong roles throughout the Marvel Universe even outside of their specifically X-Men related plots, and as such many of them could easily appear first in other characters' movies.

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#81254: Feb 27th 2018 at 11:47:48 AM

The only way I could see Mutants being worked in logically is if they basically do a reverse House Of M. Instead of depowering a large number of Mutants they have Scarlet Witch alter history so they suddenly exist. Although that has its own issues.

Realistically I think they should just reboot the X-Men in a separate universe and keep them under the Fox label. They can have occasional crossovers with the MCU but that's as far as I'd take it.

edited 27th Feb '18 11:48:10 AM by Kostya

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#81255: Feb 27th 2018 at 11:49:53 AM

I still say literally warping the universe so a plot point - let alone an entire mythos - abruptly comes into being fully formed so as to completely skip actual development and introduction is a very bad idea. If at any point one has a solution that doesn't involve a cosmic retcon, they should take it. At the very least it raises significantly more questions and inconsistencies by necessity than it would if they didn't do so, and wouldn't be great for the audience's immersion.

Mutants are - as a concept - not very difficult to introduce. This is by design: part of the appeal of the plot device that mutants bring with them is that - in a sci-fi universe - it's something that's very easy for audiences to buy, and very easy to replicate as many times as they need for as many characters as they want. Being able to go "well, people are starting to be born with superpowers now" without any further ado and excessive narrative gymnastics is the beauty of the concept.

The Verse is basically on the cusp of that idea anyway, even if they're not literally calling them "mutants," and that's without even including the tv shows.

edited 27th Feb '18 11:56:27 AM by KnownUnknown

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#81256: Feb 27th 2018 at 12:00:37 PM

Only problem is some of the Mutants only work because of their long established history. The characterizations of Magneto and Xavier just don't fit if Mutants are a recent thing.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#81257: Feb 27th 2018 at 12:11:35 PM

I am still for putting them in a parallel universe...one which contrasts to the MCU in tone and is maybe a little bit less family friendly.

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#81258: Feb 27th 2018 at 12:20:54 PM

[up][up] Superhero movies are rather full of characters who were entirely reinvented because their role in the comics didn't fit in the verse 1 to 1.

Remaking Xavier as either an up and comer or someone who has been working in secret for a long time isn't that hard. The main problem Magneto faces is that him being a Holocaust survivor is rapidly becoming unbelievable, but that would be problem regardless of whether he was inserted as is or reinvented anyway.

Either way, neither of them represent a problem that requires the entire universe to be soft-rebooted to fix.

edited 27th Feb '18 12:25:36 PM by KnownUnknown

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#81259: Feb 27th 2018 at 12:24:21 PM

If they do try to introduce the mutants to the MCU, I want them to have been around, just secret. Like, maybe the X-Men have been keeping people from discovering mutants. Xavier's going around erasing minds and stuff. But due to recent events, they've been forced out of the shadows.

Or possibly new events. Maybe we could have the schism between Magneto and Xavier be it, with Magneto deciding that it's time for mutants to take their proper place in the world. You could have a whole movie about the X-Men trying to stop him from revealing mutantkind, with a climax that shatters the Masquerade forever.

That's how X Men Evolution did it: after two seasons of the main characters having to disguise the secret of mutantkind while also being superheroes, their existence was revealed to the public and then subsequent seasons had to deal with the fallout of mutants now being a known entity.

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KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#81261: Feb 27th 2018 at 12:31:01 PM

Well, that's certainly one of the most bizarre contexts I've seen a Word of God bombshell get dropped in.

edited 27th Feb '18 12:31:28 PM by KnownUnknown

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#81262: Feb 27th 2018 at 12:31:23 PM

I'd like to pitch a slightly altered ending to a hypothetical Silverclaw movie. Tell me how this sounds:

Peliali breaks free of Kulan Gath's magic bonds with the power of Kamekeri believing in her. She easily overpowers Kulan but he manages to stab her. Lupe and Peliali say their goodbyes as the portal opens above them. Peliali tells Lupe to harness the power of her godly bloodline as she is pulled into the portal by dark gods. Kulan Gath gets his evil power and Lupe steels herself for a fight. The town of Kamekeri cheer Silverclaw on, and she gets a power-up from their faith in her. Silverclaw and Kulan fight with both of their newfound power in an epic battle and Lupe is victorious.

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#81263: Feb 27th 2018 at 12:32:17 PM

He already confirmed the first Groot was dead, back during the buildup to GOTG 2.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#81265: Feb 27th 2018 at 12:35:45 PM

Remember the gentle giant the first Groot was? Raised by Peter Quill and Rocket of all people the new one could develop into a raging a-hole.

[up] Wow....that is cold....

.....

I see myself out.....

edited 27th Feb '18 12:36:57 PM by Swanpride

Julep Since: Jul, 2010
#81266: Feb 27th 2018 at 12:37:55 PM

Or possibly new events. Maybe we could have the schism between Magneto and Xavier be it, with Magneto deciding that it's time for mutants to take their proper place in the world. You could have a whole movie about the X-Men trying to stop him from revealing mutantkind, with a climax that shatters the Masquerade forever.

It might work for some mutants.

But others would be totally verboten. It's hard to picture Magneto, a mutant activist who can routinely move skyscrapers, remain hidden for decades - especially as his point is mutant supremacy. A superpowerful psychic like Jean Grey whose story arcs include being contained so as not to destroy the world is also unlikely to stay hidden in a masquerade, you'd figure at some point she would start to cause worldwide headaches and someone would investigate. Storm, Beast, Nightcrawler, Angel, Caliban or Cyclops to varying degrees would either have a hard time hiding their mutation or have a hard time hiding their powers. And they are heroes - villains such as the Blob, Juggernaut or Azazel would be in the exact same situation.

Of course you could imagine Wolverine, Kitty Pride, Mystique or even possibly Rogue being kept hidden (although I wonder how in the latter's case), but that's a limited number of characters.

edited 27th Feb '18 12:38:29 PM by Julep

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#81267: Feb 27th 2018 at 12:39:44 PM

[up][up][up]Steve is going to need some ice for that burn.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#81268: Feb 27th 2018 at 1:00:31 PM

For a burn, that statement was awfully chilling.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#81269: Feb 27th 2018 at 1:11:43 PM

Man that is not just cold, its fucking sub-zero.

Also now I'm hoping the X-Men would actually get a good wardrobe this time. The MCU has done their costumes better than Fox has right?

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#81270: Feb 27th 2018 at 1:13:08 PM

Anything is better then the drab black Fox makes them wear

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RedM Since: Oct, 2012 Relationship Status: You can be my wingman any time
#81271: Feb 27th 2018 at 1:26:32 PM

There was a part in Ultimate X-Men where Magneto was presumed dead but in reality he was alive and Xavier had mindwiped him to try and rehabilitate him. Maybe that could be their explanation for Magneto: that he's been brainwashed or otherwise incapacitated for decades and that's why he hasn't been around.

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slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#81272: Feb 27th 2018 at 1:32:43 PM

[up][up] I cannot stop gushing about Ghost's costume.

Seriously that outfit looks like it came straight outta the comics. Ant Man & Wasp is now a must see solely because I want to see more of Ghost.

Ghost's costume alone is more beautiful than costume that ever came out of Fox......... well except for Deadpool of course. tongue

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#81273: Feb 27th 2018 at 2:46:08 PM

I like the costumes in Deadpool, but then Deadpool was making a conscious effort to be more bombastic and comic book-y.

Speaking of which, biggest wish for X-Men properties going forward is that the Deadpool series continues mostly unchanged. Or even literally unchanged: the characters suddenly finding themselves in an entirely different Cinematic Universe would make an awesome gag.

edited 27th Feb '18 2:47:16 PM by KnownUnknown

Galadriel Since: Feb, 2015
#81274: Feb 27th 2018 at 2:59:12 PM

My preference would be for the X-Men to be in a different universe from the MCU. Marvel could introduce the multiverse concept and do crossovers between the X-Men-verse and the MCU, but they work better as their own stories.

You can't have a group of supers in the MCU whose main stories revolve around them being persecuted, because the immediate question that would always arise is "How can the Avengers be doing nothing about this?" If the Avengers do not act, they are no heroes; if they do act, they overshadow the X-Men; if you decide to have mutants not be persecuted, you remove the political element that makes their stories great.

Yes, the comics manage it. but comics have never cared about consistency in storytelling.

edited 27th Feb '18 3:04:13 PM by Galadriel

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#81275: Feb 27th 2018 at 3:26:26 PM

The hardest thing about Magneto is just going to be his age. If you place the schism between him and Xavier as being part of the conflict that reveals mutants to the world, then you don't have to deal with, "Well, why didn't anyone ever notice the hundreds of battles the X-Men have had with Magneto over the years?"

They haven't. Xavier and Magneto have been working together and it's only just now that Magneto's like, "Screw you, Charles. MUTANTS ARE HERE, EVERYBODY, AND WE'RE GOING TO TAKE OVER THE WORLD!!!"

The same is true of any other mutant-centric conflict. "Why didn't anybody notice Phoenix?" Hasn't happened yet. "Why didn't anybody notice the big battle with Apocalypse?" Hasn't happened yet.

The problem is Magneto's age, which was always going to become a problem eventually for adaptations. He doesn't have a convenient time-skip built into his backstory like Captain America's freezing to justify his involvement in WWII, but it's just as much an iconic piece of his character. Being a Holocaust survivor means he'd have to be, like, 90, and unless you declare him to only be in period piece stories and bar him from involvement in modern events, that's going to be a problem no matter how you tell the story.

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