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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Whowho Since: May, 2012
#81076: Feb 24th 2018 at 3:12:24 PM

It's interesting to think that Steve already knew Bucky killed the Starks. When did he discover this? Pre Ao U? How long has he been keeping this secret.

My assumption on first watching was that Cap didn't know prior, but had assumed.

edited 24th Feb '18 3:23:09 PM by Whowho

Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#81077: Feb 24th 2018 at 4:04:26 PM

> Why would there be? All of the interesting parts of Clint Barton were starched out for this, and I quote, "Hee-haw, farm-owning, boring-ass, domestic-ass, Jeremy Renner motherfucker.

Hey,I would totally watch a film about Hawkeye's farming and domestic activities!

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
Whowho Since: May, 2012
#81078: Feb 24th 2018 at 4:17:32 PM

I'd like an incredibles scenario where Clint is trying to live a normal life, but his super power skill set keeps putting his secret identity at risk.

Like, he said he managed to complete eighteen holes of golf in just eighteen strokes!?!?

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#81079: Feb 24th 2018 at 4:20:22 PM

[up][up][up] He didn't. What he did knew was that Howard was killed by Hydra. And he learned it during the winter soldier, when he was talking to Zola. You know, the whole "accidents do happen" line, showing the newspaper article about Howards dead.

Thing is, it is not a difficult leap to make. There are a ton of fanfictions in which Bucky is the one who killed Tony's parents which were written long before Civil War was released. So Steve didn't know that Bucky did it, but he mostly likely suspected it deep down. Thing is, he didn't want to know. That's what he means when he writes in his letter that he didn't tell Tony because he wanted to protect himself. Because if he had told Tony, Tony would have dug deeper. And Steve didn't want to know.

And that is why he gives up the shield. Because Howard made the shield for him. I don't think that he will pick it up again unless Tony gives it to him.

edited 24th Feb '18 4:21:59 PM by Swanpride

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#81080: Feb 24th 2018 at 4:21:16 PM

[up][up]He'd not just need superhuman aim to do that, he'd also need superhuman strength since many greens are simply too long to get a hole-in-one no matter how your aim is.

Unless he was actually talking about mini-golf with his kids. tongue

edited 24th Feb '18 4:23:41 PM by Anomalocaris20

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
it's a living
#81081: Feb 24th 2018 at 4:25:20 PM

Does Clint have a secret identity? The advantage of being as fully embedded in the system as he is is that the government can offer their full protection and resources to him. Also this seems more like Ultimate Hawkeye, who was an assassin, so he probably doesn't rack up a lot of recurring villains.

[up]That really depends on the course. And he'd kind of need at least mildly superhuman strength to do a get the kind of draw he's getting on that bow, the way I've heard it (not an expert).

edited 24th Feb '18 5:55:01 PM by Unsung

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#81082: Feb 24th 2018 at 4:41:58 PM

I thought Cap did know about Bucky killing the Starks. I know when I watched Winter Soldier that was the impression I got during Zola's monologue.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#81083: Feb 24th 2018 at 4:54:27 PM

[up] Zola doesn't explicitly say that Bucky did it. But, as I said, it is not a huge leap to make.

GAP Formerly G.G. from Who Knows? Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: In love with love
Formerly G.G.
#81084: Feb 24th 2018 at 5:42:14 PM

Re;Joss whedon writing

I will admit that I am kind of mixed with Joss's dialogue but I do agree that Joss is a wrtier who needs time to develop his characters. With that said, how do you guys believe how he handled the films so far?

"Mai waifu."
KarkatTheDalek Not as angry as the name would suggest. from Somwhere in Time/Space Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
Not as angry as the name would suggest.
#81085: Feb 24th 2018 at 5:52:26 PM

Well, he's only done two here, and isn't likely to do any more...

I think Avengers is still good - I wouldn't call it the best these days, as there's plenty that's probably eclipsed it by now, and it does have its flaws, but its good for what it is. Might even be a solid contender for the best of what it is.

Whereas Age of Ultron...there's some legitimately good stuff here, but there's a lot of crap weighing it down, to the point that it's ultimately just average, if not mediocre. I think it's rather telling that despite owning both on DVD, I've watched Avengers multiple times, while the last time I saw Age of Ultron was when I saw it in theatres.

Now, how much of this he can take the credit/blame for is a matter of debate, and one I'm not very well-informed on.

edited 24th Feb '18 5:53:14 PM by KarkatTheDalek

Oh God! Natural light!
Whowho Since: May, 2012
#81086: Feb 24th 2018 at 6:27:17 PM

Avengers absolutely plaid it safe, but I can't really blame it, it was new ground and so very easily could have been a multi franchise killer. Like Justice League is shaping up to be.

I love Age of Ultron for its ambition, but, the execution did not work and it was less than the sum of its parts.

BigK1337 Since: Jun, 2012
#81087: Feb 24th 2018 at 6:31:35 PM

[up]x2 and [up]Same here. The first Avengers was a great film in defining the character dynamics of these Marvel heroes who were confined in their own continuity, establish why such a group as the Avengers is a big deal in this film universe and overall gave a good super hero team movie where everybody has a great moment. It does have it share of flaws like the story being cliche in its execution and not all characters get to have a clear interaction with one another but other wise the performance really make up for it.

Avengers Age of Ultron was a downgrade from the original. Pros I would give is that all of the character interaction and dynamic have improved (with the exception of one), the action scenes are great to watch, and James Spader performance for Ultron is memorable. And that’s it. The film suffers from (ironically) feeling overcrowed as the film has to juggle between focused bf the already established characters and the introducing news characters, the whole Hulk X Black Widow romance feels force and lacks chemistry (especially compare to the Scarlet Witch and Vision romance in the movie . . . its just one scene, the two didn’t speak or share romance interest, and yet we all still ship it whether we knew the two’s comic history with each other or not), the comedy of the film is way too abundant and jarring when place with the more dire scenes of the movie, while Ultron is entertaining it is heavily up to debate whether or not he was a legitimate threat in the film with how the Avengers treated the Sokovia incident (see prior point about jokes), and in the end the film didn’t really live up to everyone expectations of being an improvement over the original. I will consider there were studio interference with the film as Joss originally wanted it to be smaller scaled and more personal in his original script, and the studio did cut out some scenes that would have filled in the gap of the movies plot. But in the end, this is still Wheddon’s vision for what he had in mind and the results aren’t really 100% good.

Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#81088: Feb 24th 2018 at 6:54:40 PM

At the risk of repeating myself:

My bad first-time experience with Avengers 1 aside, it's an alright movie for what it's trying to do. As time goes on I think people will be looking at more critically and see it more as a "for its time" thing, but it does have a place in film history as arguably the first film of its kind and what cemented the MCU brand. Regardless of my qualms with the film, it's obvious that it resonated with the audience for a reason, even if I don't agree with it I have to recognize that.

Age of Ultron is a film that I consider far more ambitious in its themes than Avengers and with individual scenes that are way more intense than anything in the first film, but it struggles to deliver on its lofty goals in a satisfying way and drops the ball on many of its character arcs and plot points. It's still enjoyable and there are worse films out there, but it definitely is an uneven movie and one could easily make the case for it being worse in the first film depending on whether you think a well-executed fluff movie is better than an ambitious but heavily flawed movie.

wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#81089: Feb 24th 2018 at 6:59:21 PM

So Avengers hasn’t aged well for me; it’s still fine/good for its time, but there’s some characterization issues that bother me.

Age of Ultron? The characterization bothers me even more, and Bruce/Nat and Nat’s stupid “super spy can’t escape without being rescued” scenes poison the whole movie for me.

Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#81090: Feb 24th 2018 at 7:10:44 PM

Bruce/Natasha is definitely terrible and one of the most poorly-conceived plot elements of the whole MCU. Everything people told me about it was true, which is saying something because boy did I hear a lot about how bad it was.

Whowho Since: May, 2012
#81091: Feb 24th 2018 at 7:12:44 PM

Eh, I still interpret it as "she could have left anytime she liked" she was busy Broadcasting Ultron's location and tricking Bruce into a code green.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#81092: Feb 24th 2018 at 7:17:46 PM

I know this petty but I'm still miffed Hank didn't build Ultron.

Yeah I know they couldn't do it cause the way the MCU was built made it impossible but damn it its Hank's most iconic moment.

Its his intrinsically after all.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#81093: Feb 24th 2018 at 7:21:12 PM

Building Ultron is not Hank's most (infamously) iconic moment.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#81094: Feb 24th 2018 at 7:21:50 PM

I know but its ya know better than the actual defining moment.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#81095: Feb 24th 2018 at 7:25:05 PM

Okay, going to be honest, even if they did do a lot of good things with Hank and Ultron... building it is one of the most infuriating cases of Omnidisciplinary Scientist ever. A guy who specialises in miniturisation technology... and he goes for AI as well? At least with Tony it's a little more natural.

Also, yes, Black Widow/Banner was a terrible, terrible idea. If Whedon wanted to set it up he could have at least asked for a mention of it in Winter Soldier. I guess they sort of flirt in the first film but that's how she speaks to everybody. More than the bad execution in the actual film the concept as a whole is just stupid.

edited 24th Feb '18 7:27:55 PM by Sigilbreaker26

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#81096: Feb 24th 2018 at 7:26:19 PM

And he's supposedly a bio physicist

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Whowho Since: May, 2012
#81097: Feb 24th 2018 at 7:26:51 PM

I think it's more important that Ultron is based off Hanks brainwaves. It doesn't have to be Hank who scans his own brain waves.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#81098: Feb 24th 2018 at 7:27:06 PM

It was comics in the late 60's.

Not that infuriating really.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#81099: Feb 24th 2018 at 7:27:41 PM

It was decades of continuity before that was even revealed

Ultron Unlimited I believe

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#81100: Feb 24th 2018 at 7:28:59 PM

Yeah, one of the few comics I own and it did make me understand why the Hank/Ultron thing works in the comics, but it's still grandfather clause at best.

Also I think it's one of the reasons behind why his mental state was declining to the point that he did the other thing he's always known for, can't remember though.

edited 24th Feb '18 7:30:00 PM by Sigilbreaker26

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"

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