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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
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If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#81026: Feb 24th 2018 at 8:10:42 AM

[up] I guess I experience Winter Soldier very differently. I didn't think that it was predictable at all (which is still the biggest compliment I can give to any movie or TV show).

Speaking of non-predictable, Marvel is gearing up for Ao S episode 100. They did this nice little video showing fans listing their favourite bits in the show and then surprised them with the appearance of the cast. It's good to know that at least a little bit promotion is happening.

Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#81027: Feb 24th 2018 at 8:44:44 AM

I still like Avengers more than Winter Soldier and Age of Ultron better than both and about as much as Civil War. I agree with Doug Walker on Ultron, while neither is perfect, Ultron is just better than the first Avengers. Winter Soldier and Civil War also themselves had problems that hold them back from being perfect.

I would say Ultron is more thematically ambitious than the first Avengers, but it runs into a ton of problems and doesn't really live up to its potential except for a handful of scenes.

I wouldn't put either Avengers film above Winter Soldier or Civil War, especially the first Avengers .

Punisher286 Since: Jan, 2016
#81028: Feb 24th 2018 at 8:54:43 AM

Oh I'd put Avengers above CW easily. I wasn't nearly as fond, nor did I find that movie to be nearly as well-written, as many others seem to.

It's not BAD by any means, but I'd put at least 5-6 MCU films above it.

Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#81029: Feb 24th 2018 at 9:00:49 AM

By contrast, I've never held the first Avengers in all that high a regard for multiple reasons I've gone over before.

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#81030: Feb 24th 2018 at 9:15:33 AM

Age of Ultron’s basic problem to me is that it sets up a bunch of character arcs then fails to follow through with any of them. Except the Widow-Banner subplot, so the only arc with a beginning, middle, and end is the one nearly everyone disliked.

Vampfox Since: Nov, 2012
#81031: Feb 24th 2018 at 9:16:38 AM

Ultron blows the first film out of the water.

wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#81032: Feb 24th 2018 at 9:18:19 AM

Which film?

And also, strongly disagree.

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#81033: Feb 24th 2018 at 9:20:28 AM

[up][up]Writing “no you’re wrong” and leaving it at that is not a rebuttal. It’s barely an opinion. Vibes of contrarianism.

edited 24th Feb '18 9:20:48 AM by Tuckerscreator

Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#81034: Feb 24th 2018 at 9:21:30 AM

Ultron starts really well and does some bits really well but in others it's just running on autopilot. In its defence, I've never found Ultron particularly interesting since a lot of his fights are just "smash smash smash" even in the comics... but seriously, did we need a retread of the Chitari? Also, sometimes the plot just sort of coasts along.

Avengers makes some missteps but it proved that a formula no one thought would work could work and is quite fun overall. It's a little bit too simple though.

Winter Soldier is fucking amazing and scales down all the action while still keeping it exciting, smoothly makes the transition to political thiller and spy thriller, and completely altered the state of the universe in a really cool way. It also elevates the original - not that I didn't like the original, but now the original is elevated by "it leads into WS".

Civil War isn't as good as WS; it has some great action and great moments, but the overall plot is a little shaky, and like Ultron just kind of coasts along. The twist was quite good, I didn't see it coming. It does do a bit too much of the whole "villain master plan that relies on factors outside of his control" though. It is one of the MCU works that's outright better than its source material, though.

edited 24th Feb '18 9:25:37 AM by Sigilbreaker26

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#81035: Feb 24th 2018 at 9:29:31 AM

The only thing Avengers has going for it is the teamup itself. It doesn't really have any depth or substance to speak of.

Age of Ultron’s basic problem to me is that it sets up a bunch of character arcs then fails to follow through with any of them. Except the Widow-Banner subplot, so the only arc with a beginning, middle, and end is the one nearly everyone disliked.

Tony's is the big sticking point to me.

In a well-written, well-thought out story Tony would learn that his authoritarian, "i know what's best and all you guys can suck it for trying to slow me down" attitude was wrong and the solution to the problem would come from him learning to work together with his team and not just try and do everything himself. Either that, or Tony failing to learn his lesson while the audience sees the deterioration and self-destruction of Tony, as his failure to overcome his flaws causes severe rifts in the Avengers that will be difficult to mend.

Instead he does essentially the same thing he did in the beginning of the film, except this time it magically works out because the plot demands it, and Thor has a vision for some reason and conveniently bails him out...?

It goes completely against the very basics of character and plot writing, it feels completely wrong and was very unsatisfying.

edited 24th Feb '18 9:37:44 AM by Draghinazzo

Vampfox Since: Nov, 2012
#81036: Feb 24th 2018 at 9:30:50 AM

My problem with Civil War is that it feels less like Captain America 3, and feels more like Avengers 3.

windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#81037: Feb 24th 2018 at 9:32:12 AM

I'd say Wanda's botched redemption arc is the far bigger problem. Remember, Tony wasn't even going to use Ultron until Wanda attacked his mind. People also forget that Steve told Tony and Bruce to work on the staff.

Luigisan98 A wandering user from Venezuelan Muscat Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: I <3 love!
A wandering user
#81038: Feb 24th 2018 at 9:33:50 AM

[up][up]Don't know if you're being a contrarian or just plain trolling...

edited 24th Feb '18 9:34:10 AM by Luigisan98

The only good fanboy, is a redeemed fanboy.
Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#81039: Feb 24th 2018 at 9:34:57 AM

[up][up] I agree that Wanda getting off so lightly was also a big problem.

Also, it's true that Steve told Tony and Bruce to work on the staff in the beginning, but it was Tony's decision to try and use the technology from the staff and the stone (without telling anyone) to try and finish Ultron.

edited 24th Feb '18 9:36:15 AM by Draghinazzo

windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#81040: Feb 24th 2018 at 9:39:45 AM

A decision he never would have made if not for Wanda and even Tony states Ultron shouldn't have become operational. Remember, Tony's created A.I.s before and after Ultron. The fact that the one bad one he made was due to Wanda's influence should tell you something. He's not that irresponsible.

Eagal Since: Apr, 2012
#81041: Feb 24th 2018 at 9:41:39 AM

@81302: Read that as "Wakanda's botched redemption arc" at first and I was like WTF? [lol]

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#81042: Feb 24th 2018 at 9:53:35 AM

I don't see how Civil War being more like Avengers 3 is inherently a problem. Doesn't affect the quality of the movie itself if it managed to pull its premise off and it definitely does succeed at juggling its stupidly huge cast with aplomb. Something that Age of Ultron struggled and never managed to do half of. And while I wish it focused more tightly on Captain America's cast, I think as far as him being the protagonist of the work goes, it did a good job in that front. He's a the star of a Greek tragedy.

edited 24th Feb '18 9:54:51 AM by AlleyOop

Whowho Since: May, 2012
#81043: Feb 24th 2018 at 10:02:21 AM

I don't know, I don't feel like Cap 3 is a meaningful conclusion to Cap's story arc the way Thor 3 or Iron Man 3 was.

If anything, Ao U is a better conclusion to Cap's private story arc because it ends on him finding a new family in the present within his new Avengers team. Civil War ends with... Cap finding family in the present with his new Avengers team... but maybe Bucky is okay?

Like, Civil War is an amazing film narrative for the MCU as a whole, but, I understand the arguments from cap fans that it didn't give Cap the focus you'd expect.

My brother, who HATES Cap and his films, says that Cap never changes as a person; his films are all about the world around him changing in response to him. Which I don't agree with, but I can understand why he'd argue that. Cap at the end of Civil War doesn't feel much different from the Cap at the beginning of The First Avenger, save for his height.

SonOfSharknado Love is Love is Love Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Love is Love is Love
#81044: Feb 24th 2018 at 10:17:21 AM

So I was thinking about Peter X Shuri, because why wouldn't you? And on the one hand, yes, I can totally picture Peter being adorably flustered and awkward because he's Peter. On the other hand!

  • Okoye: "Remember, don't freeze when you see him."

  • Shuri: "I never freeze."

-Later-

  • T'Challa: "Did she freeze?"

  • Okoye: "Like an antilope in headlights!"

  • Shuri: >:(

edited 24th Feb '18 10:17:37 AM by SonOfSharknado

My various fanfics.
Eagal Since: Apr, 2012
#81045: Feb 24th 2018 at 10:19:57 AM

Shuri is way way out of Peter's league.

Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#81046: Feb 24th 2018 at 10:22:03 AM

I don't know, I don't feel like Cap 3 is a meaningful conclusion to Cap's story arc the way Thor 3 or Iron Man 3 was.

Iron Man 3 is barely a conclusion to Tony's arc. He sort of just gets over his PTSD because they decided it had to go for the final showdown with one of the worst villains in the MCU.

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#81047: Feb 24th 2018 at 10:24:23 AM

The whole point of the stinger was that he wasn't over it yet

And also that Bruce was living with him

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#81048: Feb 24th 2018 at 10:24:45 AM

Still not really a conclusion to Tony's arc, though.

Whowho Since: May, 2012
#81049: Feb 24th 2018 at 10:28:47 AM

Well, Tony ends Iron Man 3 confident that he is a superhero, not a man with a weapon, which is a huge contrast to him started his trilogy as a Leonardo Divinci who can't paint. I say that's a big character arc. One Steve doesn't really have.

edited 24th Feb '18 10:29:31 AM by Whowho

Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#81050: Feb 24th 2018 at 10:33:59 AM

Iron Man 1 is the Tony arc, which is so neat and clear all further developments feel unnatural.

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"

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