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Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM
I would say Ultron is more thematically ambitious than the first Avengers, but it runs into a ton of problems and doesn't really live up to its potential except for a handful of scenes.
I wouldn't put either Avengers film above Winter Soldier or Civil War, especially the first Avengers .
Ultron starts really well and does some bits really well but in others it's just running on autopilot. In its defence, I've never found Ultron particularly interesting since a lot of his fights are just "smash smash smash" even in the comics... but seriously, did we need a retread of the Chitari? Also, sometimes the plot just sort of coasts along.
Avengers makes some missteps but it proved that a formula no one thought would work could work and is quite fun overall. It's a little bit too simple though.
Winter Soldier is fucking amazing and scales down all the action while still keeping it exciting, smoothly makes the transition to political thiller and spy thriller, and completely altered the state of the universe in a really cool way. It also elevates the original - not that I didn't like the original, but now the original is elevated by "it leads into WS".
Civil War isn't as good as WS; it has some great action and great moments, but the overall plot is a little shaky, and like Ultron just kind of coasts along. The twist was quite good, I didn't see it coming. It does do a bit too much of the whole "villain master plan that relies on factors outside of his control" though. It is one of the MCU works that's outright better than its source material, though.
edited 24th Feb '18 9:25:37 AM by Sigilbreaker26
"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"The only thing Avengers has going for it is the teamup itself. It doesn't really have any depth or substance to speak of.
Tony's is the big sticking point to me.
In a well-written, well-thought out story Tony would learn that his authoritarian, "i know what's best and all you guys can suck it for trying to slow me down" attitude was wrong and the solution to the problem would come from him learning to work together with his team and not just try and do everything himself. Either that, or Tony failing to learn his lesson while the audience sees the deterioration and self-destruction of Tony, as his failure to overcome his flaws causes severe rifts in the Avengers that will be difficult to mend.
Instead he does essentially the same thing he did in the beginning of the film, except this time it magically works out because the plot demands it, and Thor has a vision for some reason and conveniently bails him out...?
It goes completely against the very basics of character and plot writing, it feels completely wrong and was very unsatisfying.
edited 24th Feb '18 9:37:44 AM by Draghinazzo
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I agree that Wanda getting off so lightly was also a big problem.
Also, it's true that Steve told Tony and Bruce to work on the staff in the beginning, but it was Tony's decision to try and use the technology from the staff and the stone (without telling anyone) to try and finish Ultron.
edited 24th Feb '18 9:36:15 AM by Draghinazzo
A decision he never would have made if not for Wanda and even Tony states Ultron shouldn't have become operational. Remember, Tony's created A.I.s before and after Ultron. The fact that the one bad one he made was due to Wanda's influence should tell you something. He's not that irresponsible.
I don't see how Civil War being more like Avengers 3 is inherently a problem. Doesn't affect the quality of the movie itself if it managed to pull its premise off and it definitely does succeed at juggling its stupidly huge cast with aplomb. Something that Age of Ultron struggled and never managed to do half of. And while I wish it focused more tightly on Captain America's cast, I think as far as him being the protagonist of the work goes, it did a good job in that front. He's a the star of a Greek tragedy.
edited 24th Feb '18 9:54:51 AM by AlleyOop
I don't know, I don't feel like Cap 3 is a meaningful conclusion to Cap's story arc the way Thor 3 or Iron Man 3 was.
If anything, Ao U is a better conclusion to Cap's private story arc because it ends on him finding a new family in the present within his new Avengers team. Civil War ends with... Cap finding family in the present with his new Avengers team... but maybe Bucky is okay?
Like, Civil War is an amazing film narrative for the MCU as a whole, but, I understand the arguments from cap fans that it didn't give Cap the focus you'd expect.
My brother, who HATES Cap and his films, says that Cap never changes as a person; his films are all about the world around him changing in response to him. Which I don't agree with, but I can understand why he'd argue that. Cap at the end of Civil War doesn't feel much different from the Cap at the beginning of The First Avenger, save for his height.
So I was thinking about Peter X Shuri, because why wouldn't you? And on the one hand, yes, I can totally picture Peter being adorably flustered and awkward because he's Peter. On the other hand!
- Okoye: "Remember, don't freeze when you see him."
- Shuri: "I never freeze."
-Later-
- T'Challa: "Did she freeze?"
- Okoye: "Like an antilope in headlights!"
- Shuri: >:(
edited 24th Feb '18 10:17:37 AM by SonOfSharknado
My various fanfics.Iron Man 3 is barely a conclusion to Tony's arc. He sort of just gets over his PTSD because they decided it had to go for the final showdown with one of the worst villains in the MCU.
The whole point of the stinger was that he wasn't over it yet
And also that Bruce was living with him
Forever liveblogging the Avengers

Speaking of non-predictable, Marvel is gearing up for Ao S episode 100. They did this nice little video showing fans listing their favourite bits in the show and then surprised them with the appearance of the cast. It's good to know that at least a little bit promotion is happening.