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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
it's a living
#81001: Feb 23rd 2018 at 10:12:13 PM

I liked Whedon's shows (even Dollhouse), but he hasn't made the transition to the big screen well at all. I think he's used to having a large writing room to bounce off of and the ability to plot things much more loosely over a full season. He got used to his particular way of doing things and hasn't really been able to adapt. Plus he's obviously got some hangups that seem like they've noticeably started to eat at him. You can only make so many shows and movies about women in trouble beating the crap out of male monsters before that becomes less of a deconstruction and more something you might want to talk to your therapist about.

edited 23rd Feb '18 10:23:09 PM by Unsung

Galadriel Since: Feb, 2015
#81002: Feb 23rd 2018 at 10:16:19 PM

Avengers, Cabin in the Woods, and his Much Ado about Nothing adaptation were all very good, so I wouldn't say that AOU alone means that he hasn't been a successful movie director. I do agree that his characterization is better in the TV show format where things have more space to breathe.

Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#81003: Feb 23rd 2018 at 10:22:34 PM

I liked Cabin in the Woods, and for all its problems I still enjoyed Age of Ultron more than I was expecting to. I'm not trying to lay the blame for Ao U solely at his feet or imply that he has no talent, I just consider the two Russo-led films to be better than his MCU offerings, especially in terms of thematic depth, plot construction and giving every character a unique voice. I also find myself agreeing with a lot of the criticisms being thrown at Whedon these days but I think we've more or less gone over that already.

Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
it's a living
#81004: Feb 23rd 2018 at 10:22:49 PM

Cabin was great, but the characters are very Whedonesque, and most of what they do is react. That's something Whedon is good at doing, it's part of what made Buffy so accessible, and worked in Avengers 2012, too. But he always seems to need a lot of time to come to grips with big plots with a lot of moving parts, which worked against him in the first season or two of Angel, Ultron, and especially Dollhouse. The quips are a defense mechanism, it takes time (or a strong performance) for Whedon and his characters to fully acclimatize. In Age of Ultron he sort of tried to make each character his own, introducing his own subplots, most of which have been subsequently downplayed, because they didn't really fit with the characters' development elsewhere in the franchise. Less of a problem in 2012, when the shared universe was less coherent, but still noticeable in how much of a big dumb Shakespearean oaf Thor is, for instance.

edited 24th Feb '18 7:03:00 PM by Unsung

RBluefish Since: Nov, 2013
#81005: Feb 23rd 2018 at 10:23:10 PM

To be fair, Joss made the highest-grossing movie in the MCU

Well, until Black Panther came along, if the film's first week at the box office is anything to go by.

"We'll take the next chance, and the next, until we win, or the chances are spent."
Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#81006: Feb 23rd 2018 at 10:24:36 PM

[up] I have to admit I'm rather curious about where Black Panther is going to end up box office wise. I was always expecting it to do pretty well, but this is exceeding my expectations.

wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#81007: Feb 23rd 2018 at 10:24:36 PM

[up][up]Don’t jinx it!!!!!

edited 23rd Feb '18 10:24:51 PM by wisewillow

Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
it's a living
#81008: Feb 23rd 2018 at 10:25:43 PM

Fingers crossed.

Galadriel Since: Feb, 2015
#81009: Feb 23rd 2018 at 10:30:58 PM

Yes. Avengers is highest-grossing so far. Black Panther has a shot at outgrossing it (though it's an outside chance, in my opinion - Avengers had ridiculously good legs).

I agree that the Russos' two MCU movies are better than than Avengers (and the best two in the MCU). How two TV directors of non-action episodes got so good at directing action scenes, I have no idea, but they've certainly got the skill. (And perhaps a better division of labour - from the tone and style of Joss' MCU movies I got the sense that he did a lot of the writing as well as the directing, as opposed to the Russos' movies where they direct and Marcus & Mc Feely write.)

It makes me wonder how many great female directors there are who have also only done TV episodes and don't get major studios taking the same kind of chance on them.

edited 23rd Feb '18 10:34:17 PM by Galadriel

Galadriel Since: Feb, 2015
#81010: Feb 23rd 2018 at 10:40:15 PM

FYI, going by current box office tracking and trends, BP should have nearly $400 (if not more) by the end of the weekend. That means in 10 days it'll have made close to the entire domestic gross of IM 3 or Civil War. So it's far ahead of any other solo superhero movies in the MCU.

edited 23rd Feb '18 10:40:57 PM by Galadriel

Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#81011: Feb 23rd 2018 at 10:44:59 PM

Yeah, in addition to the great character handling and relatively ambitious themes the Russo's fight staging and coreography is really good and memorable as well.

The airport confrontation in Civil War was something I had heard a lot about after the film came out, and once I saw it I immediately understood why. Every single character gets a chance to shine and has their unique personality and fighting style on display. Even Scott, who I didn't care about that much in Ant Man, was surprisingly endearing. Him turning into a giant Kamen Rider and completely blindsiding Team Iron Man was both hilarious and amazing. I'm actually looking forward to Ant Man and the Wasp now, and I wasn't even originally planning on watching it.

edited 23rd Feb '18 10:46:12 PM by Draghinazzo

Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
it's a living
#81012: Feb 23rd 2018 at 10:47:41 PM

It's, uh, me, your conscience.

Maybe the Russos learned a thing or two from the paintball episodes. Justin Lin directed the first one, so it's not like they couldn't have learned a few things.

edited 23rd Feb '18 10:48:02 PM by Unsung

XJTordecai Watch the seventh wave Since: Jun, 2013
Watch the seventh wave
#81013: Feb 24th 2018 at 3:18:32 AM

So here's a thought I've been tossing around for a bit. Who are your favorite/least favorite actors/actresses in the MCU?

edited 24th Feb '18 3:18:51 AM by XJTordecai

On my wave, passing oooooooon
Luigisan98 A wandering user from Venezuelan Muscat Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: I <3 love!
A wandering user
#81014: Feb 24th 2018 at 4:19:21 AM

[up] Favorite: Tom Holland, Mark Ruffalo, Chris Evans, SLJ, RDJ, Andy Serkis, Michael Keaton, Chadwick Boseman, Vin Diesel, Chris Pratt, Pom Klementieff, Danai Gurira, Letitia Wright etc.

Least: Honestly, I don't outright should dislike them, tho I find Chris Eccleston, Mads Mikkelsen, Mikey Rourke and Guy Pierce looked very bland.

The only good fanboy, is a redeemed fanboy.
Galadriel Since: Feb, 2015
#81015: Feb 24th 2018 at 6:14:54 AM

Favourite: Chadwick Boseman, Tom Hiddleston, Lupita Nyong'o, Chris Evans

Least favourite: Scarlet Johannesen

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#81016: Feb 24th 2018 at 6:16:01 AM

[up][up][up] Chris Evans, Anthony Mackey, RDJ, Sebastian Stan and Jeremy Renner might be the best male actors (I put an Asterix behind Chadwick Bosman because I haven't seen Black Panther yet)...on the villain side, Keaton and Sam Rockwell (what? He does great with the role he has)....it is harder with the females, because they had less opportunity to shine, but Haley Atwell did the most of her role for sure and while I certainly will get flak for that, I do think that Tilda Swinton did a great job with the Ancient one. And let's not forget Cate Blanchet, who did the most with what she was given. Without her performance, the character would be pretty bland.

I hesitate to point out the worst because, honestly, there is a difference between a bad performance and a badly written character. I still would call out the actor of Malekith, because his performance was very aloof and Mickey Rourke for his "Burd" bs.

edited 24th Feb '18 6:17:02 AM by Swanpride

ComicFan Since: Sep, 2016
#81017: Feb 24th 2018 at 6:17:33 AM

Black Panther advance ticket sales in China are currently better than Homecoming[1]

XJTordecai Watch the seventh wave Since: Jun, 2013
Watch the seventh wave
#81018: Feb 24th 2018 at 6:41:58 AM

I've always been partial to the whole Got G cast but I'll also mention Chadwick Bosemen, Michael Keaton (that's two great characters played by old men named Michael, how about that), Tom Holland, Chris Evans, RDJ, Tom Hiddleston, Sebastian Stan, Mark Ruffalo, Anthony Mackie, and I have yet to see Black Panther (folks have been sick) but signs are pointing to most of that cast being really great.

Least favorite...not really any strong hatred towards anyone but I'm not big on Benedict Cumberbatch and the less said about Tilda Swanson as the Ancient One the better. Haven't seen Iron Fist but I've heard Finn Jones and Bakuto's actor are pretty bleh in that.

On my wave, passing oooooooon
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#81019: Feb 24th 2018 at 6:47:02 AM

[up] I like the Cast of Got G, but I also think that those are mostly actors who are perfect for the roles they have been cast in, but don't have the versatility some of the other actors have.

ComicFan Since: Sep, 2016
#81020: Feb 24th 2018 at 6:59:08 AM

Runaways season 2 starts filming this April[1]

Galadriel Since: Feb, 2015
#81021: Feb 24th 2018 at 7:04:21 AM

Honestly, most of the MCU films lend themselves to decent but not great acting; there's not a lot of moments for really strong acting from the characters. Seeing Chris Evans in things that aren't MCU is a He Really Can Act moment.

edited 24th Feb '18 7:05:15 AM by Galadriel

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#81022: Feb 24th 2018 at 7:23:52 AM

[up] Whut? I certainly didn't need to see him in anything else to appreciate his performance. It is the small things. Like this little smile he has in the first movie when he watches the Captain America Reel. He can tell so much with a look!

Which reminds me, I can't believe that I didn't mention Marc Ruffalo! I love the way he always hunches slightly to express how uneasy Banner is in his own skin, and the side glances he does towards the Agents in The Avenger. You just know that he is worried that they won't allow him to leave again.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#81023: Feb 24th 2018 at 7:34:54 AM

I still like Avengers more than Winter Soldier and Age of Ultron better than both and about as much as Civil War. I agree with Doug Walker on Ultron, while neither is perfect, Ultron is just better than the first Avengers. Winter Soldier and Civil War also themselves had problems that hold them back from being perfect.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#81025: Feb 24th 2018 at 7:48:28 AM

Haven't seen either of them in a while, but IIRC, Winter Soldier's plot is kind of super predictable (aside from the HYDRA twist, which basically serves the same plot function as just revealing that part of SHIELD is corrupt, which is what the film was leading up to anyways). Civil War's entire conflict is built on a Poor Communication Kills subplot about other Winter Soldiers that ended up being meaningless anyway and the final battle has nothing to do with either the Accords or the other Winter Soldiers, so it feels disconnected from the rest of the film's narrative.

They're still both great films, but nothing is perfect.

edited 24th Feb '18 7:51:38 AM by PushoverMediaCritic


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