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Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM
I never thought I’d hear this
◊ described as unimpressive. It’s Jack Kirby’s Antlers of Death!
I'm totally onboard for messages of "Colonialism's a shitty, shitty thing that did awful things to people and here's why." But I don't feel like Ragnarok sold that message very well. It's there, mind you, but very little time is actually spent on it.
Ragnarok got distracted and decided it wanted to spend 2/3 of its runtime being a Planet Hulk adaptation instead, which I feel was ultimately to the detriment of its central narrative about Asgard, Hela, and the horrors they wreaked across the Nine Realms. That story is present but there's no time to really engage with it because we have to go watch Hulk punch Thor again.
The issue with Ragnarok isn't that it didn't have a smart message. It's that it wasn't willing to commit to its message and actually talk about it for more than five minutes.
edited 22nd Feb '18 10:46:45 AM by TobiasDrake
My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.Like, even in its Arc Words about Asgard being a people, not a place, I don't get the feeling that they really wanted to explore the imperialism angle. The horrors of colonialism are presented more like a cool character trait for Hela rather than an actual theme.
"Asgard is not a place. It's a people." Yeah. A people who've done some really shitty things to a whole bunch of cultures. But whatever, we knocked down some buildings so I guess that fixes genocide.
Ironically, in having to flee Asgard, they're going to have to find a new place to colonize. So that's a thing.
edited 22nd Feb '18 10:54:43 AM by TobiasDrake
My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.I'll admit the Planet Hulk stuff sagged the middle a bit but I still appreciate the message regardless.
I'd also have to challenge Guardians Vol. 2 being better at the humor. The jokes in that were mostly overdone, crude, and gross. The drama works but it's in spite of the really awful humor.
Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?Oh no, Ragnarok was funnier, but GOTG 2 was better at sometimes toning down the humor to let some tension or emotion sink in. You get the feeling that the very well-done final burial of GOTG 2 would have had some random joke, like the Silver Surfer crashing in the coffin, if it had happened in Ragnarok.
RE Ragnorak and anti-colonialism, I was thinking of this interesting piece I had read (no idea where, unfortunately). Basically, the argument was that in light of his mixed Maori and Jewish ancestry, coupled with his identity as a New Zealander, Waititi has a double-consciousness in terms of colonizer and colonizee. Like on one hand, the New Zealand identity ties into the idea of acknowledging a brutal colonial past of one's country, but on the other hand, you can see the idea of a homeland existing mentally/spiritually even if it no longer necessarily exists physically as being important with his Maori and Jewish identity.
And like I don't recall if the article was arguing this, but I think that the double-consciousness makes a lot of sense and has a general applicability, as it's the norm for ones ancestors to be oppressors in some contexts and victims in others. Sometimes at the same time.
edited 22nd Feb '18 11:41:40 AM by Hodor2
I don't really get the colonialism angle of Ragnarok. It's certainly a valid interpretation of the story, but "I want to conquer everyone" is such a standard villain motivation, the fact that that's what drives Hela doesn't seem all that noteworthy.
The main problem with the colonialism interpretation is that we only get to see two of the Nine Realms besides Asgard. Musphelheim, which is populated by evil fire demons, and Earth, where Thor is a beloved celebrity and the only Asgardian anyone has problems with is rogue criminal Loki. If it's a colonialism metaphor, who are the colonized here?
And that's what Asgard did. We saw that in previous movies, that they consider the other Realms subservient to them. By now it's a mostly peaceful relationship, as Odin redefined himself as "Protector of the Nine Realms" instead of ruler of the Nine Realms, but it's still there. The early scenes in Dark World, for example, have people rebelling against Asgard.
Writing a post-post apocalypse LitRPG on RR. Also fanfic stuff.Don’t forget: “Where do you think all this gold came from?” Nicely echoed by Killmonger in the museum in the next film. “You think your ancestors paid a fair price when they stole it?”
I like Ragnarok’s efficiency and lack of bloat, but it’s a film that I wouldn’t have minded as a whole series about Sakaar and Hela’s occupation.
edited 22nd Feb '18 12:50:39 PM by Tuckerscreator
"Is the villain being imperialistic or are they just doing the standard villain thing of conquering and subjugating other cultures?"
Yes.
My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.Message, yes. Obvious, no. We don't see anything of the realms, we are not supposed to extrapolate a message about what happened there from what the movie says. For all we know the gold could com from unifying Asgard, and I certainly hope the writers didn't expect me to remember about some obscure plot points of Thor 2 to understand the deep message of Ragnarok.
It would be different if the movie emphasized the continuity within the trilogy, but it prefers to just kill whoever is not needed. Which is fine, mind you, but it also has consequences on how viewers will perceive the movie.

The only scene which was allowed to truly play out was the elevator scene between Thor and Loki, which is consequently my favourite, but I would have liked the same kind of pacing between serious and silly in the whole movie.
edited 22nd Feb '18 10:40:30 AM by Swanpride