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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
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If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Cross (Don’t ask)
#80876: Feb 21st 2018 at 5:59:48 PM

What were you thinking? I don’t like the idea of taking away Ben though, since a Brooklyn Jewish character isn’t super common.

I hope no one finds this offensive, Asian or maybe someone from the Middle East.

BigK1337 Since: Jun, 2012
#80877: Feb 21st 2018 at 6:17:06 PM

On changing Ben’s race, that has always cross my for a revised Fantastic Four series; but said change might not going to matter a lot since he is going to be human for only the first 3 to 5 minutes and be an orange rock monster for the rest. Unless said race change will serve as a double message about being happy for who you are on the outside, then sure have a black actor for The Thing.

Though I think we should might as well make Reed black as well, even if it leads to comparisons to Blue Marvel with said race lift.

Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
it's a living
#80878: Feb 21st 2018 at 6:18:35 PM

It's not that having Ben be black is a huge problem unto itself, it's having the only black guy be an orange rock monster.

BigK1337 Since: Jun, 2012
#80879: Feb 21st 2018 at 6:22:57 PM

[up] That’s why I said have Reed be black as well along with Ben who would be half black half jew just like White Tiger.

Seems to make sense seeing how a lot of recent Fantastic Four stories retcon the two’s relationship to be childhood friends instead of friends of college.

And all of the sudden I think a director from Pixar would be the best choice to do a Fantastic Four movie all because I think Monster University is an accidental origin retelling of how Reed met Ben. Also The Incredibles (and its sequel).

edited 21st Feb '18 6:23:26 PM by BigK1337

MadSkillz Destroyer of Worlds Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: I only want you gone
Destroyer of Worlds
#80880: Feb 21st 2018 at 8:47:10 PM

When I say the MCU, I'm not counting the TV shows. I'm just counting the films. The films are much bigger than the shows.

I'd be down with a Hispanic Johnny and Sue Storm. Although I'd actually prefer it if Reed Richards was Hispanic. You can even say that his father anglicized his surname from Ricardo when he immigrated to America.

edited 21st Feb '18 8:49:27 PM by MadSkillz

Beatman1 Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Gone fishin'
#80881: Feb 21st 2018 at 9:31:03 PM

[up]That would put an interesting spin on Doom and Reed's relationship. Reed valuing the freedom to do things for science and those ideas vs. Doom who thinks he can run the world better than anyone if it wasn't for RICHARDS!

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#80882: Feb 22nd 2018 at 3:44:25 AM

It is not true that nobody watches Agents of Shield. If that were true it wouldn't be Marvel's longest running TV show by now and about to reach its 100th episode.

Julep Since: Jul, 2010
#80883: Feb 22nd 2018 at 7:50:17 AM

I finally watched Thor Ragnarok.

It was as funny and well-crafted as it was coincidental and inconsequential. It has a real personality, and I didn't get the impression I was watching something I already saw three times already. Like Black Panther, it would work very well as a complete standalone set in its own personal universe. But really, at times, you get the feeling writers let many strange things pass for the sake of a good joke or scene - to the point it went beyond the WSOD on repeated occasion.

Still in the better half of the MCU, and clearly the best Thor.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#80884: Feb 22nd 2018 at 8:06:07 AM

[up] WSOD?

edited 22nd Feb '18 8:06:19 AM by Swanpride

Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#80885: Feb 22nd 2018 at 8:07:56 AM

Window Shot of Doom?

White Screen of death?

Acronyms suck

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#80886: Feb 22nd 2018 at 8:07:58 AM

Willing Suspension Of Disbelief.

Julep Since: Jul, 2010
#80887: Feb 22nd 2018 at 8:25:03 AM

Sorry, yeah, suspension of disbelief.

Like Odin dies -> 10 sec later, Hela is here. Or Remote Planet -> Last living Valkyrie is just here -> She's the one who captures Thor. Or the warrior's three getting downed even before I could recognize their faces.

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#80888: Feb 22nd 2018 at 8:26:03 AM

The last one doesn't seem like a suspension of disbelief thing to me.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
it's a living
#80889: Feb 22nd 2018 at 8:28:45 AM

The movie was heavily improvised and had to be cut to the bone, as I understand it. Taika Waititi has an improv comedy background. There are some moments that could've used some more time to breathe. I do still like it, though. It's hard not to be taken in by that sense of glee behind the scenes.

Punisher286 Since: Jan, 2016
#80890: Feb 22nd 2018 at 9:07:28 AM

Honestly that's one of my biggest issues with it.

AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#80891: Feb 22nd 2018 at 9:20:47 AM

That's one of the biggest reasons I liked it.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
Luigisan98 A wandering user from Venezuelan Muscat Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: I <3 love!
A wandering user
#80892: Feb 22nd 2018 at 9:25:21 AM

[up]Same here, even though my dad didn't like it.

The only good fanboy, is a redeemed fanboy.
wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#80893: Feb 22nd 2018 at 9:31:38 AM

For me, the Thor movies have always been basically a big dumb golden retriever. Thor: Ragnarok was a big somewhat smart golden retriever gone completely crackerdog (hyper). It was so gleeful it put me in a good mood every time.

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#80894: Feb 22nd 2018 at 9:52:54 AM

The joke Korg made at the end was a bit much and Hela's introduction was a bit rushed, but I thought Thor Ragnarok did a much better job of letting its jokes breathe and avoiding deflating tension than other MCU films.

Punisher286 Since: Jan, 2016
#80895: Feb 22nd 2018 at 9:53:09 AM

I don't even think that it's all that smart TBH. And after seeing GOTG 2 and BP, it feels even less so. They both were dealing with some of the same themes/ideas that Ragnarok was, but both did them far better imo.

AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#80896: Feb 22nd 2018 at 9:56:10 AM

It's just as smart as both of them in criticizing colonialism and imperialism. To say otherwise just feels wrong. It's not even subtext in the film, it's blatant text and it's frankly a message that needed to be made.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
ComicFan Since: Sep, 2016
#80897: Feb 22nd 2018 at 10:01:30 AM

Black Panther is expected to cross the half billion mark today[1]

wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#80898: Feb 22nd 2018 at 10:12:07 AM

[up][up] I agree. I thought Ragnarok addressed the consequences of imperialism on both the victims of imperialism and on the persons who inherit the benefits of imperialism.

There’s also that great “sorry, the prisoners with jobs” comment about slavery. That’s... I’m still surprised that made it into the final cut. Because if you’ve seen the documentary 13th...

AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#80899: Feb 22nd 2018 at 10:26:37 AM

Lemme put it this way: I'm Latino. Specifically I'm of Mexican descent, my father is a Mexican and I have family there who I visit often. This is my culture. In Mexico's history, who all has imperialized it, again? Spain. France. The United States. Latin America in general has suffered a lot at the hands of imperialism. People here were murdered over goddamn bananas.

It made me happy to see a movie with such a blunt message about imperialism, and it makes me happy that Taika Waititi, a Maori man who likewise is descended from people who suffered at the hands of imperialism, made this. To say it's not as smart about it and to downplay that feels like an insult to me and a disservice to Waititi.

edited 22nd Feb '18 10:27:05 AM by AdricDePsycho

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
Julep Since: Jul, 2010
#80900: Feb 22nd 2018 at 10:40:16 AM

I can't bother caring for anything but the characters in Ragnarok, because Asgard is as bland as they come. We don't even know a thing about the "invaded realms" mentioned in Hela and Odin's backstory. So I got it less as criticism of imperialism as just giving a random evil thing to do to the villain, and it just so happens that criticizing that evil thing happens to go against imerialism - it could go against racism, or sexism, or anything else really, with a villain with different motivations. The political message looks more incidental than anything. It is not wrong, but when you get an infinitely better version of that debate three months later in the very same universe, I find it hard to praise Ragnarok. At the very least, it is a good step to get away from the "America Fuck Yeah" attitude the MCU often had beforehand, in The Avengers or Civil War in particular.

Hela is also a bit of a waste. First, her Maleficent crown is unimpressive (and, well, Maleficent - why not give her her own identity?) and she would look much better with just her hair down. But aside from that, why make her Thor's and Loki's sister...and do nothing with it? They meet for a grand total of thirty seconds, and three minutes at the end. They don't interact further than that, and when they do it's because she is dumping some exposition on the viewer. At that rate, she would have been better as an independent villain, as her screen time could either have been used to flesh her out, or to make her entertaining enough to be more memorable (or both, ala Klaue/Killmonger).

As for deflating the tension, I think GOTG 2 was much better than Ragnarok when it came to staying serious. Here, I never really cared for anything, because when tension started to rose, there always was a (hilarious) gag to take my mind off it. Granted, it is better, for me, than Star Wars VIII distracting me with plot twist after plot twist.

Also, France colonized Mexico ? I honestly did not know that. I knew about parts of the US, and Quebec obviously, but never heard of France messing in Mexico;

Edit: okay, one more stupid thing Napoleon III did. And people wonder why I am wary about sequels, considering how our historical sequels went.

Also, my criticism doesn't mean I had a bad time in front of Ragnarok, far from it. The hyperactive not-too-dumb dog is an apt comparison. I think I'd rather watch this one again than Civil War, for example.

edited 22nd Feb '18 10:41:53 AM by Julep


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