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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#80801: Feb 20th 2018 at 6:03:20 PM

Why hasn't that happened in a comic yet?

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Whowho Since: May, 2012
#80802: Feb 20th 2018 at 6:04:55 PM

A whole lot of them are dead or evil? Though, they'd probably settle it for a joke.

(Also, how do you get eleven people with the same powerset. That's just. How. There's only four aliases between them too (Well, five, but everyone who's gone by Goliath has also gone by Giant-Man))

Bonus if they do it to Doctor Doom and he has to do the humiliating "Confound them!" pose yet again.

edited 20th Feb '18 6:09:55 PM by Whowho

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#80803: Feb 20th 2018 at 6:09:02 PM

Red Jenny: Inquisition Needs Beeees!

I do not know how someone would come to this idea, but I can see the use. It is a large area to search, however. ~A memo from Josephine, written on a note from Sera:

Know what ruins a party? Bees. I know a man who teaches how to jar them safe but angry. Stingy, no good for honey, but great for throwing! He’s somewhere south.

Sera has scribbled a jar of bees hitting someone in the face. Also a butt.

edited 20th Feb '18 6:09:24 PM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#80804: Feb 20th 2018 at 6:29:10 PM

Something I was thinking-

So, although I'd like to see more of Shuri, I wasn't really down on the idea of her becoming/filling in for Riri Williams, because part of what is distinctive about Riri (and different from both Tony and Shuri) is that she comes from a poor background and doesn't have bottomless resources.

However, I was thinking it would be funny to have Shuri and T'Challah undercover in New York with T'Challah as Luke Charles, which would be either Boseman using his own accent or using a "The Whitest Black Guy accent". And Shuri would use the Riri name as a Sue Donym.

edited 20th Feb '18 6:29:56 PM by Hodor2

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#80805: Feb 20th 2018 at 6:30:11 PM

Also, how do you get eleven people with the same powerset.

Hank Pym: "This Pym Particle is too dangerous for the world. Which is why I'm handing it out to my friends like Halloween candy. Anyway, don't look too long at my murder-bot."

Whowho Since: May, 2012
#80806: Feb 20th 2018 at 6:32:24 PM

Reed Richards: "The science of Pym particles is hopelessly, utterly, complex. It would take me an entire week to gain the same understanding of them Hank has."

Clint Barton: *Can use them*

DeathsApprentice The Ultimate Lifeform from The Ark Since: Aug, 2011 Relationship Status: Is that a kind of food?
The Ultimate Lifeform
#80807: Feb 20th 2018 at 6:33:00 PM

[up]x3 That would be amusing.

edited 20th Feb '18 6:33:37 PM by DeathsApprentice

When we're done, there won't be anything left.
Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#80808: Feb 20th 2018 at 6:40:05 PM

What's weird with the Ant- Men People, is that they don't all have the same powerset, but instead have a Discard and Draw thing going on, where the ones who grow will only do that, only the Wasps have wings, and only the "bee people" have blasters.

Granted, there's some leeway, as like Eric O'Grady used all of the abilities at various points, but typically if you are using one ability, you have to do without at least one other.

edited 20th Feb '18 6:40:20 PM by Hodor2

Beatman1 Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Gone fishin'
#80809: Feb 20th 2018 at 6:40:34 PM

It ain’t Hank’s murder bot in the MCU, it’s Tony’s. Everyone in the Ant-Man mythos seems to get off easier.

Whowho Since: May, 2012
#80810: Feb 20th 2018 at 6:51:12 PM

There is a single line which suggests that Ultron existed as a project prior to Tony, and Tony just revived it given an opportunity and a short time span. But it's clear that Hank in the MCU isn't too focused on brain waves beyond, well, ant control.

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#80811: Feb 20th 2018 at 6:56:42 PM

Clint wasn't very good at Pym particles. His time as Goliath was kind of sad

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
ComicFan Since: Sep, 2016
#80812: Feb 20th 2018 at 7:20:22 PM

Will Smith has a message for the cast and crew of Black Panther[1]

Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#80813: Feb 20th 2018 at 7:26:38 PM

So in preparation for Black Panther, I've decided to catch up on some of the MCU films I've been putting off watching. Well, really, it's just two, Age of Ultron and Civil War. I wasn't originally planning on watching Ao U but I figured it would be better to be thorough and form an opinion on it so I can finally be part of the conversation, even if it's way late.

So, I'd heard a lot of people were not really satisfied with Ao U. Almost everyone seems to hold it in lesser regard compared to the first Avengers (a film that I initially didn't care for when I saw it, mind you). Based on that, I was more or less expecting to dislike it, which was part of the reason why I didn't want to watch it in the first place.

Much to my surprise however, I found the film was quite enjoyable...for around the first half anyways (there is one big problem that I noticed right away with it, but we'll get to that in a moment). I really enjoyed the overall darker feel this movie has compared to the first Avengers. A lot of people complain that they couldn't take Ultron seriously because he quipped too much and felt like Tony Stark Except Evil. I thought he had multiple scenes where he was quite creepy and unsettling, like his introduction where he seemingly kills Jarvis and comes crawling out of the floor during Tony's Party, as well as when he rips Klaue's arm off when he compares him to Tony. Similarly, the visions that Wanda gives the Avengers were surprisingly disturbing and one of the more notable parts of the movie.

This is also the first time I've ever given a shit about Hawkeye. Seeing him with his family I think I finally understood the appeal of the character.

So I'm at a little over the halfway point and enjoying myself a lot more than I expected...and then Vision's creation comes and with it come several major, MAJOR problems in terms of plot construction and the character arcs of the movie.

Going with everything the story has been building up towards, Tony has no reason to be right in this situation. His paranoia and fear (even if borne from sympathetic motivations), his arrogance in thinking that he knows best and everyone should just get with the program and not slow him down by daring to call out his ridiculous authoritarian solutions, is exactly what caused the entire plot of the movie. His character arc should be about learning that he was wrong and that he needs to trust his team and not do stupid shit like this again.

Instead what happens is he basically tries to do the same thing that he was doing in the beginning, except this time he's magically right because the plot demands it, and Thor has a vision for some reason (I still don't understand that plot point - how exactly did he get to revisit his vision, what was going on?) and everything magically works out in the end.

This is both extremely unsatisfying and feels wrong on multiple levels. Vision being a great character who steals every scene he's in doesn't change that. His entire creation is contrived and severely detracts from the movie.

At this point I began to understand just what all the criticisms of this film were about, and everything just sort of clicked for me. This film has a lot issues. Besides everything I just mentioned....

- The romance with Bruce and Natasha is bad. It has no build-up whatsoever and feels completely forced into the plot for reasons. Not only is it shoehorned, it has gross sexist "beauty and the beast" overtones and particularly in the scene with the two in barton's house, has some pretty bad implications.

- While Ultron is good in the first half, come the climax he doesn't really feel scary or threatening anymore because he quips just like the good guys whenever he gets into a bad situation and all the Avengers have little issue trouncing him and his robot army. It's understandable, I think, that people ultimately didn't find him to be great, which is a shame because he was very good in the first half of the film.

- What was the point of setting up that "sacrifice a few to save a million" ultimatum if it only lasted for a total of 10 seconds? It feels completely unnecessary as a plot point, so much so that it doesn't merit being there.

- The twins on the whole could have been better implemented into the film. Their plotline and characterization feels underdeveloped, and Wanda's powers somewhat poorly defined at that. Pietro's sacrifice was a nice scene in and of itself but it doesn't feel like it adds that much to the movie besides making Wanda sad. More importantly, I have to agree that it feels like Wanda got off too lightly given the horrible results of her actions.

There's a lot of good stuff in this movie but the problems it has are very noticeable and detract a lot from it. I guess in the end I'd just call it uneven.

AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#80814: Feb 20th 2018 at 7:30:35 PM

I've said this before but Age of Ultron has a really bad set up where it feels like Whedon outright screwed up trying to do a proper three act set up. In a lot of movies you usually get that one point where it looks like shit has gone irrevocably south, where all is lost and shit is at its most tense. Age of Ultron did that twice. First with the South Africa fight, and second with Black Widow getting kidnapped.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#80815: Feb 20th 2018 at 9:39:29 PM

The last one barely qualifies as a Darkest Hour because no one seems to be worried that Widow was kidnapped. Tony even shrugs her off with "she can't be dead because then Ultron would be broadcasting that". No one's trying to plan a rescue mission or track her down. It's pretty transparently a writing fix to give Ultron someone to monologue to after the Maximoffs desert him, but it has the effect of making the world's greatest spy into someone who can't get out of a locked cell.

As for the first Darkest Hour, well... it basically boils down to one day of bad self-esteem. The implication that the world hates the Avengers now and that there might be charges to arrest Banner after the Hulk's rampage never come up again. Instead the Avengers prove themselves as inspiring defenders of humanity... by blowing up a city and then spending their cash on a new base for themselves. Inspirational.

edited 20th Feb '18 9:41:27 PM by Tuckerscreator

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#80817: Feb 20th 2018 at 9:46:48 PM

They do it poorly and they set it up in such a manner that I still can't believe this movie is shorter than the first Avengers. It feels longer. A lot longer. The last thirty minutes are boring Avenger-on-robot violence that lacks the same fun punch that the fight with the Chitauri had going for it. The pacing in the entire film is just the outright worst pacing of any MCU film, and to be honest I can't tell if it's because of Whedon or because of Marvel's meddling to set up Phase 3.

And I mean, this is one of those movies that honestly needed to be a bit longer if they wanted to give it some breathing room for the characters, but Whedon was dashing to make it shorter, from what I've understood. The writers of Winter Soldier and Civil War have shown that they're a hell of a lot better at writing for multiple characters than Whedon was for the Avengers.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
deuteragonist Since: Dec, 2013
#80818: Feb 20th 2018 at 10:00:20 PM

I haven't seen Age of Ultron in a while, but I definitely agree that it was one of the more flawed MCU films. However, I enjoyed the hell out of it and I still think Ultron was a great villain despite valid criticisms. In fact, I actually enjoyed Ultron more than Loki at some points (though Loki is still in the top MCU villain category).

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#80819: Feb 21st 2018 at 2:06:21 AM

Ao U main problem is that it is overstuffed.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#80820: Feb 21st 2018 at 2:48:44 AM

A couple pages back, Swanpride suggested Silverclaw as a potential movie headliner. Reading up on the wiki and holy shit, her origin story is amazing and would totally work wonders as a film with only minor tweaks!

There is a small town in South America called Kamekeri. They used to worship some gods (like, real gods who actually exist because this is Marvel) until Spanish missionaries came in and "modernized" them. The Kamekeri abandoned their gods and were "taught" Christianity. The gods felt betrayed and left the Kamekeri, except for Peliali, their volcano protector goddess, who stayed behind but faded into legend because of their lost faith in her.

Years pass, and a villager named Jaime Santiago is a Mythologist who studies the pantheon of the Kamekeri's old gods. He goes into the mountains and comes back with tales of meeting Peliali, which gets him ridiculed and denounced by the Christian church. He goes back to the mountains multiple times after that, though, and one day he comes back with a newborn infant which he claimed was his and Peliali's daughter. The baby was given a name, Maria de Guadalupe Santiago, and baptized. Her powers manifested during the baptism, freaking everyone out. The village children mocked and feared Lupe for her often uncontrollable powers, but her father told her that she was the daughter of a goddess. He took her up the mountain to see her mother multiple times, but Peliali was nowhere to be seen, giving Lupe doubts about her supposed lineage.

Lupe's father died when she was still a child, and she was put into the local church orphanage that was funded by an American charity for international orphans. Jarvis saw a commercial for the charity on TV and decided to use part of his paycheck to sponsor a child. The sisters at the orphanage assigned Jarvis to Lupe because they hoped that the Avengers might help out if there were any problems with Lupe's powers. Lupe and Jarvis wrote to each other over the years as she grew up. She became enthralled and fascinated with tales of the Avengers and America, dreaming of going there, meeting the man who helped raise her as well as the Avengers, and going to a University. Eventually, she takes a plane to the USA after growing up into a young adult.

Here's where it gets a little comic-booky. Some terrorists hijack the plane and threaten to kill the passengers if she doesn't help them. She does, and there's a pointless Let's You and Him Fight between her and the Avengers which she loses. If I were adapting this into a movie, I'd either remove the terrorists altogether or I'd change it so that she single-handedly beats them, which impresses the Avengers. Lupe meets Jarvis and the Avengers. She also attends Empire State University.

One day, Lupe gets an urgent message from Kamekeri, saying that something really bad is happening there. She gets the Avengers to help and they fly to Kamekeri. Once they arrive, they discover that the town has been taken over by an ancient wizard named Kulan Gath, who seeks to increase his power by sacrificing a god, namely Peliali. Silver Claw realizes that her father was telling the truth and she is the daughter of a goddess, and now she must save her mother's life. Kulan Gath already has her mother captured and he's transformed the town and people into a city and a small army. His forces overwhelm the Avengers and they're forced to watch as he prepares the sacrifice.

The Avengers break free and Silverclaw fights Kulan Gath. She fights bravely but she realizes their only hope is Peliali herself. She appeals to the Kamekeri to restore their faith in this guardian deity who kept faith in them by staying behind even when all the other gods moved on. Lupe's impassioned pleas get through to them and they break free of Kulan Gath's control and begin chanting Peliali's name. Peliali is empowered by their prayers and she breaks free of her bonds just as Kulan Gath stabs her with the magical sacrificial dagger. Peliali escapes wounded, but Kulan Gath's dark masters are angered that he didn't sacrifice a god to them and they take him as a sacrifice in her place.

Peliali's injury is fatal, even to a goddess. As Lupe held her dying mother in her arms, Peliali apologized for hiding from her daughter for all those years and said that she could move on contented that her daughter would protect the land and the people that she loved. Silverclaw said "I love you" to her mom for the first and last time. Silverclaw returned to ESU and chose to study topics that would help her be a better protector: criminology, psychology, and mythology. She also officially joins the Avengers.

That is a goddamn amazing origin story, and only a few small things would need to change to adapt it to a movie. Jarvis is obviously replaced either by Vision or someone else. The plane hijacking scene is changed. Kulan Gath is given a more personal connection to the Kamekeri people and maybe some parts of the climax are altered a little. As Swanpride also mentioned, she's got a unique look and power-set that hasn't really been seen before in the MCU and they could do some really interesting stuff with it. Maybe update her outfit a little, though.

edited 21st Feb '18 2:52:24 AM by PushoverMediaCritic

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#80821: Feb 21st 2018 at 3:08:55 AM

[up] Add a pair of pants and tone down the jewels a little bit, and it should work.

Honestly, I didn't even knew her origin story that precise....not being a comic book reader I usually just pay attention to five aspects: Look, power set, setting, themes and name. A character is worth considering once it fulfils at least two criteria. She fulfils all five. Unique look, unique powers, South America is something we haven't seen since The Incredible Hulk, the whole cultural context is interesting and the name is bad-ass. If Marvel plays it right, they could turn her into "Black Panther for Latinos" if you get my drift. Sure, there is also White Tiger, but her power is more run of the mill, the name isn't quite as awesome and I think she would work better in a Young Avengers setting.

edited 21st Feb '18 3:09:23 AM by Swanpride

Spinosegnosaurus77 Ramen Fairy from Ontario, Canada Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: All I Want for Christmas is a Girlfriend
Ramen Fairy
#80822: Feb 21st 2018 at 5:33:18 AM

My father has expressed interest in seeing Black Panther, but he hasn’t seen Civil War. Will he be able to understand the plot?

Peace is the only battle worth waging.
Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#80824: Feb 21st 2018 at 5:42:09 AM

Black Panther takes place before Civil War,right?

have a listen and have a link to my discord server

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